EU Referendum - 23rd June 2016

[SpursRiot2012]

Where do you stand? Even if I thought leaving was a good idea, which I don't, I can't get behind any campaign that includes George Galloway and Nigel Farage.

[WyattSheepMask]

Definately remain. Would I be right in think that if Britain was to leave the EU, we would have to arrange new trade agreements with everyone as we technically be sovereign from everyone else? Trade agreements can take fucking ages to finalise

[Nexus]

What I don't understand is why the rest of the EU are prepared to change everything for the UK? Do we really bring enough to the EU to be able to try and dictate it? 

 

I obviously think we should stay, and I'm hoping that the silent majority are the same - just like what happened at last year's election, and it'll end up a 80/20 split or something like that. 

[Undefeated Steak]

If it was tomorrow, I'd opt to stay in. I don't know too much about the pros and cons in the grand scheme of things, certainly not enough to get involved in any thorough discussion about it. I'll be doing some research between now and June.

 

From the little I do know, I think the positives for remaining in the EU outweigh the advantages of an exit.

 

I think the way the world is going, the UK as a standalone state(?) is too small when you have America, China, Russia throwing their weight around (plus there's India and the emerging African countries). And that's before the EU countries who would wangle their dicks at us if we did exit.

 

The EU could be much better and I think in a perfect world, the EU should be a world leader in healthcare, technology, education, finances, business, media, renewable energy, housing, space exploration, arts and more. It's obviously not, but it could, and should be. And that's what I'd like more of a push towards. An exit from the EU would go against this.

 

There'll be a big black and white, in/out debate this year but as with anything politics, there's always three sides to the story and usually the best option is somewhere around the middle. Instead of spending time and resources debating whether or not to come out or stay in, we should be pushing for a reform of the EU or our position within it.

[WyattSheepMask]

There's going to lots of 'Vote OUT of the EU' in Middle England isn't there?

[d-d-d-dAz]

I've always been fiercely pro-Europe, but as I get older I just grow increasingly weary of government, in general. Layers upon layers of twats in suits can't be the answer to everything, can it?

 

The only thing that stops me from saying 'actually, the EU isn't a progressive coming together of people's, it's a cabal of professional cunts tying us all in knots' is that people may confuse me for a migrant hating racist. When, actually, the idea of borders seems a bit archaic. I'd take all the working class, Tyskie drinking migrants in the world if it meant the aforementioned suittwats would just fuck off.

 

That went far ranty then I imagined.

 

I almost want there to be a 'none of the above' option, where normal people come together through mutual societies, business affiliations and unions and build a Europe in the interests of Europeans. Because trying to just excuse ourselves from the rest of the world isn't an option either, and severely weakens us at a time when American power is waning, and superpowers like China, Russia, India and more are preparing to start exerting themselves more.

[CavemanLynn]

The proposal of this referendum seems driven by shaky arguments on both sides. Cameron's deliberate wording in his statement that he believed we should stay in a "reformed" EU seemed obscure, suggesting that the vote would be for or against remaining in something we aren't actually a part of yet. The UK always seems to be in the top tier of the EU, but still beholden to the whims and desires of more politically powerful and/or less financially prosperous members. As a business and societal merger, I think staying has merits, but we need to find a way to secure ourselves against other individual nation's weakening economies.

[unfitfinlay]

I'm for staying in.

 

The EU is flawed, definitely, but it does offer us some protection from the absolute madness of the U.K Government. If people are dying now because the Tories have decided that they aren't disabled enough for benefits then what it'll be like without those protections in place? I honestly dread to think.

 

That isn't even getting into the immigration aspect. We could potentially see thousand of ex-pats from across the E.U being deported back to us, while we simultaneously kick out valuable workers who've lived here for years.

 

As it stands I really don't see the case for a no vote.

[Carbomb]

I'm genuinely undecided. I've traditionally been pro-EU because unity and co-operation over narrow self-interest has demonstrably brought us further away from the ravages of war and attrition Europe has seen throughout most of its history. I also think it a good thing that people can move freely - flows of skills and capital can strengthen the economy and thus society, not to mention I love the bonus that it makes travelling around Europe cheaper.

 

However, as a socialist, I have some major issues with the EU that I don't think are likely to ever be solved with the current, reigning European political elites across the region. The EU constitution, while on the one hand laying down some very strict and welcome labour laws on workers' rights, also has draconian anti-trade union laws, and also forbids nationalisation or re-nationalisation of any industries in Europe.

 

Furthermore, I'm getting the increasing impression it's being run mainly for banking and corporate concerns. It has done very little in real terms to truly deal with the problems that helped cause the economic crisis, and the way it dealt with the Greek situation was execrable.

 

EDIT: One thing I'm definite on is that, whether or not we stay in, we need to start reinforcing and strengthening our links with the Commonwealth. Not for the "hey, look, I'm not racist really" pretext that Farage gives, but for one simple thing: moolah. When you consider that the Commonwealth includes some of the most dynamic and growing economies in the world, like Australia, India, Canada, South Africa and Ghana, it makes sense that we should take advantage of our links with them. And if we did stay in the EU, it gives us the extra dimension of making us Europe's "middle man" to those economies, which can't be a bad thing.

[hallicks]

That TTIP thing is fucking frightening. Sue the government if they pass laws or regulations that affect profits? Right, ok. I can't imagine any situations where that might negatively affect the public.

[gbacon85]

In for me. I think leaving would be an absolute economic disaster. Reckon it'll be 70/30 remain to be honest, with low voter turn out.

[Mr_Danger]

I'm all for staying. Imagine having to get all those work permits sorted for wonderkids on Football Manager.

[CavemanLynn]

A good point made about the Commonwealth. With the media constantly pushing the world stage as EU vs USA with China as a dark force approaching on the horizon, it's easy to forget that the world is a much larger political stage. One of the benefits of onced being a rampaging flag-sticking military behemoth of civilisation is that Britain has political ties all over the world. Lots of renegotiating required of course, and everyone would have to get past the better-the-devil-you-know attitude that tries to obscure fear of change, but an exit could potentially lead to longer-term closer relationships with more distant allies and growing economies. But yeah, change is difficult and uncertain.

[Carbomb]

I don't think a closer relationship with the Commonwealth necessarily precludes an exit; we can have both if we want. But I do think it's something we as a country really should pursue whether we stay in the EU or leave. Of course, if we leave, I think such a course becomes imperative.

 

Oddly enough, such a thought had occurred to me before, but it was only solidified when I was watching football: when I see just how much the French and Belgian extensively draw on their old colonial links to bring in young, talented players to bolster the pool, it makes me wonder why we're not doing the same. We had even more colonies than they did!

[bAzTNM#1]

Too many of the national teams in the Commonwealth (at football) are very low down the FIFA rankings and probably wouldn't get work permits.