UFC 196: McGregor vs Diaz

[waters44]

Really looking forward to this. I want to think that McGregor is one of the best ever, but for me there is still the tiniest of niggles. I don't think he looked amazing against a Chad Mendes on two weeks notice (knee injury couldn't have helped) and obviously we didn't really get to see much in that 13 seconds vs Aldo! I am desperate for him to go out and smash RDA to really prove that he deserves all the praise in the world.  

 

Unfortunately I think the fun stops here and McGregor's getting beat. RDA just merked Cerrone in 60 seconds and destroyed Pettis a few months ago.

 

I think RDA stops him in the first round. I really hope I'm wrong though.

[herbie747]

 

I'm back to doubting Conor. I know I shouldn't after the last one, and it's the last thing I want to see personally, but I think Dos Anjos is going to give him the Anthony Pettis treatment and the fun is going to come to grinding halt. I pray it doesn't happen of course, but Jesus Christ. Conor couldn't have chosen a tougher fight to take. He's a maniac.

 

 

I need some of the faith that Herbie has!

 

Yeah, but the second the bell rings I'll be 100% doubting everything. "He's fucked - what was I thinking?!" is my usual.

[Carbomb]

I've been debating with a friend of mine regarding RDA. This mate is very much into his continental Asian martial arts (like various styles of Kung Fu, Tang Su Do, Hap Ki Do, TKD, JKD, etc.), and loves his martial arts movies. Consequently, he's a huge fan Cung Le prior to entering MMA, and of Pettis and McGregor, both of whom he considers to be the best strikers he's ever seen in MMA (although he admits he doesn't know as much as he'd like).

 

Basically, our debate revolved around whether or not RDA is on something. I personally am of the opinion that he's not, for various reasons, most of which have been discussed on here. However, my friend believes he is, and has raised a point that I've yet to rebut, mainly because I need to re-watch the match to see for sure, and that is that RDA ate a shitload of shots from Pettis, and none of them fazed him at all. I'm still certain that my friend has exaggerated just how little he reacted to them, but he's insistent that these shots looked like they just had no effect, that there wasn't even the slightest give or movement in RDA's head when he took them. I pointed out that there are plenty of people out there with granite chins, including Zombie whose very nickname is based on the fact that he just walks through shots, but he insisted that even when he's seen Zombie take shots, or anyone known as having a particularly strong chin, there's been at least a small amount of give, which he swears blind there was none of from RDA.

 

What do you guys reckon? I'm going to re-watch the RDA/Pettis match at some point, because I'm certain he's allowing his fandom of Pettis to blind him, but has anyone else had this sort of suspicion?

[wandshogun09]

I think what seperates Mcgregor to RDA's previous opponents is his accuracy and power. Neither Bendo, Pettis, and Cerrone has the combination of KO power and accuracy that Mcgregor possesses. They may have one or other, but certainly not both.

Very good point. None of RDA's recent opponents have been quite the complete package of technique and fight ending power like McGregor is.

 

Then again though, I think RDA is the most complete test for McGregor as well. Aldo didn't have the wrestling of RDA and I don't think was as powerful either. Mendes didn't have the variety of strikes or the submission skills RDA has. Siver and Poirier aren't even close to RDA skills-wise.

 

It's a great fight. I think they're both the biggest threat to each other. But again, I said the same before the Aldo fight as well.

 

Yeah, but the second the bell rings I'll be 100% doubting everything. "He's fucked - what was I thinking?!" is my usual.

I'm terrible for that. I'm like it with all my favourites. Whenever a McGregor or Shogun or whoever is fighting I'm pretty much doing the Bobby Heenan Royal Rumble 92 commentary throughout. When Mendes was holding McGregor down at UFC 189 I remember saying to my mate "That's it. That's it. He's fucked it. It's over". It made the finish to that fight even sweeter to me.

 

Basically, our debate revolved around whether or not RDA is on something. I personally am of the opinion that he's not, for various reasons, most of which have been discussed on here. However, my friend believes he is, and has raised a point that I've yet to rebut, mainly because I need to re-watch the match to see for sure, and that is that RDA ate a shitload of shots from Pettis, and none of them fazed him at all. I'm still certain that my friend has exaggerated just how little he reacted to them, but he's insistent that these shots looked like they just had no effect, that there wasn't even the slightest give or movement in RDA's head when he took them. I pointed out that there are plenty of people out there with granite chins, including Zombie whose very nickname is based on the fact that he just walks through shots, but he insisted that even when he's seen Zombie take shots, or anyone known as having a particularly strong chin, there's been at least a small amount of give, which he swears blind there was none of from RDA.

Dos Anjos has always had a solid as fuck chin though. And Pettis isn't the biggest puncher. If you look at Pettis' knockouts or even moments where he's badly hurt his opponents, it's usually kicks doing the damage. The Lauzon KO, the Cerrone body kick, the Showtime Kick against Bendo in WEC, the brutal body kicks which broke up Bendo in their rematch. Rarely do you see Pettis causing big damage with his hands. He landed some kicks on RDA as well but most of his strikes were counter punches from what I remember.

 

Worth remembering that Dos Anjos actually has fucking metal in his jaw as well, after suffering a broken jaw in the Clay Guida fight back in 2010. The only guy who's KO'd Dos Anjos is Jeremy Stephens in 2008, and Stephens is easily one of the heaviest handed 155/145lb fighters in the sport.

 

Is there any actual scientific evidence to suggest that PEDs make you more able to take shots to the chin? Genuine question. I don't know the answer. I wouldn't have thought it would make a great deal of difference in that regard. If you get cracked on the sweet spot, you're jaw and brain aren't going to magically become more durable because you're on the ball shrinkers, are they?

 

Not saying RDA can't be dirty, by the way. I wouldn't rule anyone out. I'd rather wait for actual evidence like a failed test. But I wouldn't base much off him taking shots against Pettis to build a case against him. McGregor ate flush shots off Mendes at UFC 189, who I'd guess is a bigger puncher than Pettis, and McGregor basically laughed at him. Doesn't mean McGregor is on something. I just think a combination of strong chin/ridiculous cardio/moving with the punches is what helps these guys. PEDs could well be another factor, but it's pure speculation based on nothing really.

[jimufctna24]

Penn is now fighting at UFC 197.

 

“I thought the fight guaranteed was going to happen because the UFC, they set up medicals for me to do,” Penn said. “I did the medicals and they were sending a film crew down and we were getting all that together and I assumed we were setting up the fight, and that might have been what was happening. But, at the end of the day, Sean Shelby (UFC matchmaker) called me and said it would be more convenient for all of us to move the fight to April 23rd.” - http://www.bjpenn.com/mma-news/bj-penn/bj-penn-announces-a-change-in-his-fight-plans/

[ColinBollocks]

Indeed, that write-up may be your best yet, wand. Bravo!

 

I've probably ruminated about main event fight just as much as the Aldo one. Still, like Aldo, I really have no clue who's winning. Looking at every man's skills, I can maybe see Dos Anjos' scary cardio coming into effect. No doubt McGregor will be in tremendous shape (and he's on the old stakes for this, so he'll probably not be turning up to the weigh-ins looking like a Trainspotting casualty), but Dos Anjos' has cardio like no other and it'll be interesting to see how McGregor copes with the pace - nobody has recently. Of course, McGregor has that left hand and scary precision on his side. Feck knows.

 

Holm and Tate is similar in that regard. As wand typed, pre-Rousey win you would have Tate winning this handily. I'd still maybe give Tate the nod, seeing as I don't think she'd be as pig-headed as Rousey was with her bull-charging approach against a clearly amazing counter striker. Again, though, feck knows. Holm has probably made the improvements to succeed once more.

[wandshogun09]

Thought as much. It really was getting too late in the day to get him on 196, wasn't it? It's less than a month away now. At least sticking it on the April PPV gives them time for a proper training camp and the UFC time to promotionally flog the dead horse that is BJ Penn's career.

[Carbomb]

Promotionally, the UFC could easily market BJ's match as "the veteran desperate to prove he's still relevant, or at least got something left in his locker". Basically make out that it's make-or-break time for him.

[herbie747]

 

Yeah, but the second the bell rings I'll be 100% doubting everything. "He's fucked - what was I thinking?!" is my usual.

I'm terrible for that. I'm like it with all my favourites. Whenever a McGregor or Shogun or whoever is fighting I'm pretty much doing the Bobby Heenan Royal Rumble 92 commentary throughout. When Mendes was holding McGregor down at UFC 189 I remember saying to my mate "That's it. That's it. He's fucked it. It's over". It made the finish to that fight even sweeter to me.

 

It's exactly what I was saying....!

[jimufctna24]

Yeah, add me to those who thought the worst.

[Rey_Piste]

I think Aplhaville put it best.

Let's start in style, let's dance for a while,

Heaven can wait we're only watching the skies.
Hoping for the best, but expecting the worst,
Are you gonna drop the bomb or not?

[Egg Shen]

Promotionally, the UFC could easily market BJ's match as "the veteran desperate to prove he's still relevant, or at least got something left in his locker". Basically make out that it's make-or-break time for him.

They could, and it'll probably work but i can't see it ending in anything other than crushing disappointment, the BJ Penn that fought Edgar was a shell of his former stuff. The break might have re-energised him but i reckon he crumbles come fight night.

[Carbomb]

 

Promotionally, the UFC could easily market BJ's match as "the veteran desperate to prove he's still relevant, or at least got something left in his locker". Basically make out that it's make-or-break time for him.

They could, and it'll probably work but i can't see it ending in anything other than crushing disappointment, the BJ Penn that fought Edgar was a shell of his former stuff. The break might have re-energised him but i reckon he crumbles come fight night.

Sad to say I think you're right. Here's hoping that, come fight night, they'll have promoted the match sufficiently that he'll make enough bunce to retire comfortably.

[Rey_Piste]

With Bj working in New Mexico with Jackson Winkeljohn, you're going to get the best BJ Penn you can get in 2016. Since he's not going to be figuratively and literally on his own little island he should be coming in at his best. The problem being that MMA has long since passed BJ by, he's no longer the dominant natural athlete he was in his prime.

[David]

Very good point. None of RDA's recent opponents have been quite the complete package of technique and fight ending power like McGregor is.

 

To be fair, no one was saying that when RDA was preparing to face Pettis, were they? At the time Pettis was the main man, the king of kings, the future pound for pound great and all that jazz, remember?

 

He'd handled Cowboy, Benson and Joe Lauzon in the first round without too much trouble, and was the first man to stop Gilbert Melendez.

 

It was only after his loss to Dos Anjos that anyone really started to question Pettis. Virtually no one gave him any kind of chance before the fight.

 

History is repeating itself somewhat here, and I think the result will be the same. All I'm trying to decide is if it goes down like the Pettis fight, or the 2nd Cowboy fight.