The Clint Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I noticed that the Raw episode featuring footage of wrestlers arriving at Owens funeral along with the coach that most of them must've traveled on that had a big "We miss you Owen" banner along the side has been edited out on the Network. Obviously wouldn't have been out of respect more like Martha stepped in again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Really Big Shoe Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Really good post by HG, think he's covered mostly all the major scummiest angles in pro-wrestling. A few other things not mentioned so far, remember when they did a skit with Vince operating or something on JR when he had a legit stomach/colon health problem. The skit went no where & was childish too (fart noises etc.) with the sole focus being on mocking JR. Hawk "committing suicide" live on Raw is another. The Eugene character too since it essentially mocked those with learning difficulties and I remember reading they had Nick Dinsmore in character 24/7 which made the gimmick even more offensive since I'm guessing they'd have Eugene at the Special Olympics and meeting Make a Wish kids and it essentially makes a mockery of them. Another I just remembered when they did Jake falling off the wagon when he had real-life drink & drug problem. Lawler used to go on about it on announcing and glorify & make fun of the fact that Roberts was a alcoholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Christ I forgot about about the Lawler/Roberts stuff. Awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIDDUM_N_STYLE Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Has the Mass Transit incident in ECW been mentioned yet? That's my nod for this thread, completely rotten to the core that whole deal from the guy blagging his in ring credentials to New Jack going way way way over the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted January 4, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted January 4, 2016 Melanie Pillman being interviewed by Vince the night after her husband legitimately died, live on television was pretty scummy. It felt like a total ratings ploy and massively exploitative. The interview is actually quite distressing, and Melanie seems understandably distraught. The whole thing feels grubby and ugly, not to mention desperate. I remember his closing question being something to the effect of how she was going to support her family now that she was a single parent. Even now as I write that I am disgusted. I was actually amazed they had left that Melanie Pillman interview in all of its full glory on the WWE Network. It's really hard to see past the Melanie Pillman interview, particularly that "how are you going to support your family now?" Question. Initially I thought The Eugene character was in incredibly poor taste, even though it did lead to some amusing skits. This was going to be my choice. I rank this far higher than the other exploitation of someone's death - Eddie ostensibly leaving Rey a main event push in his will, Punk feuding with Paul Bearer's ghost and so on. There are two reasons, one being that it comes so immediately after the tragedy of Brian's death, everything is so raw, and it so shamelessly exploits a woman not "in the industry" that in no whatsoever would have been in the right state of mind to know what she was doing. Moreover, you can even slightly understand, warped as it is, the use of the references to Eddie and of Paul Bearer's character and association with The Undertaker to try and something to the storylines in question. Disgusting as it was, these were both designed to try and add something extra to a storyline leading to a pro wrestling match or matches on pay per view, so it can be justified (if that isn't too strong a word) as exploiting somebody's death to try and profit, indirectly. Just wrestling being low rent as it always has been and always will be. In contrast, putting the widow Pillman on live TV 24 hours later.... I despair. Were they that desperate to try and beat Nitro that they thought a grieving widow would have more wrestling fans tune in than the build for Hogan/Piper at Halloween Havoc? Maybe, but I don't see the logic. I genuinely think that Vince was crossing everything that Melanie would have something positive to say about the company, and his line of questioning about drug use was almost designed to try and give her chance to say that whatever Brian was doing, it wasn't the WWF's fault or to their knowledge. In some twisted way they were trying to share in her grief and show the viewers that they cared, that they felt the pain of losing one of their own, and oh yeah, let's try and be subtle - IT WASN'T OUR FAULT. Shower of bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordyM Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 New Jack. You could dedicate a podcast to all the shitty things he's done. There's of course the Mass Transit incident where New Jack, as he's stated himself in interviews, took offense to the kid talking to him pre-match about some spots he wanted to do. That's it. He sliced and bloodied that poor kid with the gusto of a hungry blind man trying to eat a raw steak all because he decided the kid's over-eagerness was disrespectful and he needed to be put in his place. Then there's the Gypsy Joe match. New Jack thought the old guy wasn't selling enough and started beating the shit out of him for real. Maybe Gypsy Joe wasn't selling hard enough, maybe he was simply OLD AS FUCK and should've been applauded for being able to stand up for so long and do anything, never mind wrestle. But no, fucking New Jack wasn't prepared to give the old geezer even a tiny bit of leeway. Imagine if Willy Wonka had started wailing on Grandpa Joe after discovering he took a sip of fizzy lifting drink and stomped him into a bloody puddle while screaming "Fuck you, cracker!" This disturbing match is the wrestling equivalent. Except without Oompa Loompas. Well, unless Tazz was in the audience. However, New Jack's worst and scummiest moment by far has to be his match with William Lane. According to New Jack, Lane was hitting him for real, either because he didn't know or didn't care that wrestling's supposed to be a work. New Jack's response? To pull out a hidden knife and stab Lane approximately a dozen times. It seemed Lane made the mistake of bringing fists to a knife fight. When he rolled out of the ring and onto the floor to, you know, try and not die, New Jack followed him out, stamped on his head and kept Lane pinned to the ground underneath his boot. When another wrestler ran out to try and save Lane New Jack tried to stab that guy too! New Jack takes things far beyond scummy. He's a piece of shit. I'd love to see him go up against a genuine tough guy like Lesnar without his weapons - watch how quickly that cowardly scumbag toes the line and does exactly what he's supposed to. Christ I hate that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew "the ref" coyne Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 EDIT: Screw it. Beaten to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 New Jack. You could dedicate a podcast to all the shitty things he's done. There's of course the Mass Transit incident where New Jack, as he's stated himself in interviews, took offense to the kid talking to him pre-match about some spots he wanted to do. That's it. He sliced and bloodied that poor kid with the gusto of a hungry blind man trying to eat a raw steak all because he decided the kid's over-eagerness was disrespectful and he needed to be put in his place. Then there's the Gypsy Joe match. New Jack thought the old guy wasn't selling enough and started beating the shit out of him for real. Maybe Gypsy Joe wasn't selling hard enough, maybe he was simply OLD AS FUCK and should've been applauded for being able to stand up for so long and do anything, never mind wrestle. But no, fucking New Jack wasn't prepared to give the old geezer even a tiny bit of leeway. Imagine if Willy Wonka had started wailing on Grandpa Joe after discovering he took a sip of fizzy lifting drink and stomped him into a bloody puddle while screaming "Fuck you, cracker!" This disturbing match is the wrestling equivalent. Except without Oompa Loompas. Well, unless Tazz was in the audience. However, New Jack's worst and scummiest moment by far has to be his match with William Lane. According to New Jack, Lane was hitting him for real, either because he didn't know or didn't care that wrestling's supposed to be a work. New Jack's response? To pull out a hidden knife and stab Lane approximately a dozen times. It seemed Lane made the mistake of bringing fists to a knife fight. When he rolled out of the ring and onto the floor to, you know, try and not die, New Jack followed him out, stamped on his head and kept Lane pinned to the ground underneath his boot. When another wrestler ran out to try and save Lane New Jack tried to stab that guy too! New Jack takes things far beyond scummy. He's a piece of shit. I'd love to see him go up against a genuine tough guy like Lesnar without his weapons - watch how quickly that cowardly scumbag toes the line and does exactly what he's supposed to. Christ I hate that guy. Didn't New Jack also try and kill a dude in a scaffold match? Bunch of tables piled up or something and he purposely pushed him too far and admits it on shoots. Can't fathom why the guy isn't in jail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 5, 2016 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2016 Vic Grimes. New Jack says he tried to kill him but I say he's talking out of his arse and it was just a botch. And a stupid bump to take in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordyM Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Didn't New Jack also try and kill a dude in a scaffold match? Bunch of tables piled up or something and he purposely pushed him too far and admits it on shoots. Can't fathom why the guy isn't in jail Yeah, that was in his rematch with Vic Grimes. In their first scaffold match Grimes botched the fall and New Jack ended up seriously messed up, including brain damage and partial loss of vision in one eye. New Jack supposedly shrugged it off as "hey, shit happens, especially in wrestling" but when he heard Grimes was going around bragging about how badly he messed up the notorious NJ he set out for revenge in their rematch. New Jack claims he threw Grimes as hard as possible in the hopes he'd over-shoot the tables, hit the ground and die. Some contest this, saying if you watch the video you can see Grimes pushing off against the scaffold with his left leg and adding too much momentum to his dive. I've rewatched it and it's hard to tell. Probably a mixture of both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted January 5, 2016 Paid Members Share Posted January 5, 2016 New Jack being full of shit 90% of his life probably adds to the idea he never tried to kill Vic Grimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonworden Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Going back to Owen there were some pretty scummy moments in WCW too. Kanyon was thrown to the floor from the triple cage at Slamboree 2000 around a year on from Harts death in the same arena/town , surely there were plenty of fans that night who had watched a man fall to his death a year before who didn't particularly want to see a big bump like that ever happen again. I reckon in Kansas there must be a few people with fears of the arena and going anywhere near it thinking their presence will cause a man to fall from a great height. Around a month later they did another big bump again with Sting (stunt double) as well. How about the contract signing between Paige and Charlotte and using Reid Flair almost out of nowhere to put more heat on the feud. That has to be the latest scummy classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theringmaster Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 1) Misogyny. I totally respect your opinion and i'm not going to say 'your wrong' or anything like that but it is worth taking into account they were playing to their audince at the time, all these (well most of them) went over extremely well, Dudley's putting women through tables for example always got a huge pop. WWE have always put out a product that appeals to what they percieve as their average fan and around this time they saw their average fan males between 14-25, listened to rock/rap music, had pictures of women in bikinis on their wall etc. and their product refelected that Whether it's morally right or wrong it was just a product of the time, it's like The Beatles singing on about drugs during the mid 60's, whatever your stance on drugs you can't criticise the Betales for it since it was what they were doing at the time and it was all part of the culture. Wrestling culture during this era, Women were eye candy above all else (again whether this is morally right or wrong is a different discussion) and WWE can't be blamed for that, if Molly Holly and Ivory went out in 2000 and wrestled a 15 minute match it would have been boo'ed the hell out of, that is not what the fans wanted at that time. I think people look to much into how women were treated and portrayed on tv, there is that argument that it was unfair because you had to be blonde and and have big boobs to get signed, well the same argument could be made it's unfair that men had to be 6ft and have big muscles. Away from that point I 100% agree with everyone about treatment of the dead, the Orton/Rey angle actually made me turn off briefly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted January 5, 2016 Awards Moderator Share Posted January 5, 2016 I understand it was part of the culture at the time, and I understand it was playing to their audience, but that doesn't stop it from being scummy. I'm not saying every female segment should have been a 15-minute Molly vs Ivory match, but it doesn't have to be a case of that or tits. There are things you can do other than long wrestling matches or tits. If women being considered nothing more than eye candy is part of your culture, I'm sorry but there is something scummy about your culture. And if you're playing on that conception - or rather, in wrestling's case, creating it - then that scumminess will become apparent even if it's not at the time (and I'm sure for a lot of people, it did feel that way at the time.) Lads mags were big at the time but you can't say none of them were scummy in how they treated women. And if the Dudleys putting women through tables always gets a huge pop, you have to ask yourself what kind of audience you're making for yourself. To me, that's not something you should be cheering. If doing that is the best way to get a pop, you're dealing with something scummy, 'of its time' or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theringmaster Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I understand it was part of the culture at the time, and I understand it was playing to their audience, but that doesn't stop it from being scummy. I'm not saying every female segment should have been a 15-minute Molly vs Ivory match, but it doesn't have to be a case of that or tits. There are things you can do other than long wrestling matches or tits. If women being considered nothing more than eye candy is part of your culture, I'm sorry but there is something scummy about your culture. And if you're playing on that conception - or rather, in wrestling's case, creating it - then that scumminess will become apparent even if it's not at the time (and I'm sure for a lot of people, it did feel that way at the time.) Lads mags were big at the time but you can't say none of them were scummy in how they treated women. And if the Dudleys putting women through tables always gets a huge pop, you have to ask yourself what kind of audience you're making for yourself. To me, that's not something you should be cheering. If doing that is the best way to get a pop, you're dealing with something scummy, 'of its time' or not. Then surely it's more of a case of the society being scummy rather WWE being scummy? If WWE are playing to their audience and their audience enjoy such things how can WWE be blamed for that? Wrestling is hardly the medium to take moral high grounds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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