TUF 22 Discussion * Team McGregor vs. Team Faber

[David]

No doubt the McGregor fight would suit him down to the ground as a nice little earner, but having watched him of late I don't think he troubles many of the top five guys in either weight division he competes in.

[wandshogun09]

I definitely think Faber's lost a step or two. I've said it before as well. If you look at his record, the last time I'd say he really looked good was the Michael McDonald fight nearly two years ago. He was on a really strong run at the time coming off a streak of wins.

 

Since beating McDonald though, he's;

 

- Been stopped by Barao in a round.

- Beat Alex Caceres but made hard work of it.

- Beat Francisco Rivera but was losing surprisingly handily up until he accidentally poked Rivera in the eye.

- Got shut down by Frankie Edgar.

 

Say what you want about the Barao stoppage but he was getting dropped and battered all over the place regardless. The writing was on the wall. The losses to Barao and Edgar are no shame but it does suggest he hit his ceiling and can't hang with that very top level anymore. And even the two wins there, I'm a big fan of both Caceres and Rivera but they should've been showcases for Faber really but he didn't look that good in either fight.

[d-d-d-dAz]

36 in a lighter weight class is a big deal, though. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that he struggles to compete.

 

I've always had a blind spot for Faber. I never really watched him in his pomp, despite being a big MMA fan around that time. I was always very UFC-centric, only dipping my toe into other pools when something big was going down. I've no perspective of how good he ever was.

[wandshogun09]

He was always really good but he was only ever a dominant champion when the featherweight division was weaker and in its formative stages. Kind of like Miguel Torres. They were pioneers of the 145/135 divisions but they ruled over divisions that were still forming. Faber definitely adapted and kept up better than Torres did but he never had that unbeatable aura for me, even when he was on top in the WEC. By then he'd already been KO'd by Tyson Griffin and then Mike Brown came along and ended Faber's reign with two defeats.

 

I've always liked Faber and he was undoubtedly a really good fighter but I do think he was a little bit fortunate to come along before the lighter weight classes had more depth. But he had an exciting style and his laid back personality made him easy to like. Without him the featherweight division might've never ended up becoming what it is now because he really carried WEC on his back as their biggest star for most of the company's existence. You had Torres and then the likes of Aldo, Cerrone and Pettis came along later on but Faber was the poster boy for WEC.

[GlennCullen]

God I miss the WEC. There were times when that was my main promotion, even over the UFC. Consistent high octane fights.

[wandshogun09]

WEC was the shit.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=DFVOy_Rc-eU

 

I pretty much preferred everything about how WEC was presented over the UFC.

 

- I still rate the Todd Harris/Frank Mir team among the best MMA commentary teams we've ever had.

- The show intro was better. We didn't have to 'Face The Pain'.

- Joe Martinez, for me, pisses all over Bruce Buffer. I know it's probably not a popular opinion but I think he's got a much better ring announcer's voice than Shouty Bruce.

- Brittney Palmer when she was a 10. And not looking like a wax dummy of herself after multiple unnecessary surgeries.

- I liked the blue canvas.

- The smaller cage - I think that's actually a big reason why the shows were so consistently exciting to watch. Sure you had a killer roster too but the smaller cage forces the action more IMO, there's less space to play with. Even now, when the UFC occasionally uses the smaller cage (like the Hendo vs Boetsch Fight Night a few months back) it usually results in an action packed show.

 

The only thing I didn't really like was that most of their shows were on a Sunday night which wasn't ideal with work the next morning. The UFC is definitely the more polished product and they've improved here and there but I loved the overall presentation of WEC.

 

Coming back to TUF on that note, the show opening now is much improved for TUF. I'm so glad they binned off that awful TUF theme song a few seasons ago.

 

BOOM

You're gonna get hit

BOOM

You're gonna get knocked out

You're gonna feel iiiiit

This is the ultimaaaate

 

That was fucking rotten.

 

Edited for Bisping signing the TUF theme on season 3;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=uyzbOEqJ7r8

[JNLister]

Just seen episode 2. I'm all for booking for entertainment rather than pure sport, but at least be subtle about it rather than come straight out and say your new format is that losers can advance and winners can be eliminated.

[jimufctna24]

WEC was great. 

 

In a climate where you had UFC and Strikeforce, you would think a 3rd promotion would struggle to gain attention, but it didn't. WEC had its own niche that made it worth watching. The sub-155lbs classes established themselves to a wider audience in the WEC. If its job was to slowly prepare the lighter classes for the UFC, it accomplished its mission.

 

Even though WEC did produce Aldo, who is now a P4P kingpin, and one of UFC' biggest stars today, Faber was the biggest star of WEC's run. The commercial highlight of WEC was Faber vs Pulver in 2008, I still remember watching the preview show and being pretty hyped for it. They drew a massive rating, not just in general, but for the high standards of the time. They had some crazy moments. Bendo vs Pettis on the last show was insane. Mike Brown beating Faber for the belt raised eyebrows. As incredible as it sounds now, Brian Bowles knocking out Miguel Torres was another shocker. The Cerrone vs Varner feud was another highlight. 

 

I agree with Wand in regards to the presentation. The show intro was nothing special, but it wasn't cringe-worthy. The commentators were rarely annoying as well. I dare say it didn't feel like a Zuffa show (other than the PPV, which was a copy of a UFC show). WEC had its own identity, as its production and pacing were quite unique. 

 

The market could not support a promotion like WEC today, it was very much of its time. There is not a deep talent pool of lighter weight fighters to draw from, or such a high demand for MMA programming. But WEC was a heck of a ride while it lasted 

[Guy Bifkin]

Enjoyed the latest installment, although it looks like the US are going to wipe the floor with Europe. Conor was very funny both intentionally and not. The TJ Dillashaw stuff is clearly a sore point for Faber. However he may have got the last laugh with Conor losing his shit during the fight as his German protege wouldn't stay on his feet. You have to think that in terms of coaching, you are probably better off with the Alpha Male lads. 

 

Conor should just abandon coaching his lot altogether and maybe just give them advice on suits and shoes. 

[Ghostface1982]

McGregor should be losing his shit, his fighter did nothing he was told to. The full pre fight training looked to be geared towards a takedown against the fence. Not half arsed ankle picks from 9 feet away or going to your back repeatedly when everyone is telling you to get up. I hope he rips him to pieces and makes him cry in the next episode.

As for McGregors style of coaching, when he shows up his coaching looks pretty good.

On the whole Im not a fan of the Europe vs USA setup. I think they should have just had them pick teams like a normal season.

[Guy Bifkin]

Oh I agree completely, it was a truly dismal, embarrassing performance. I'm looking forward to Conor giving him the hairdryer next week. 

 

I really wonder how much the training actually matters. The US guy had been training with Dan Henderson prior to the show so I can't imagine there's much the trainers can show him that he doesn't know already. 

[wandshogun09]

I love Conor but I didn't like how he carried on during the fight this week. I understand his frustration but, fuck me, it was a bit much. Calling Sascha a "bitch" and a "pussy" and stuff. No need for that stuff and it's not going to help your man at all so what's the point? I actually felt a bit sorry for Sascha. Yeah, he didn't perform too well and I'm not saying Conor should be wrapping these guys in cotton wool but it was a bit shitty. I thought the advice he was giving Sascha in the dressing room after the fight wasn't so bad, it's the way he carried on during the fight that I thought wasn't good.

 

It's all well and good Dana going 'he wasn't listening to Conor's advice at all' but when Conor's advice consists of 'GET BACK TO YOUR FEET! STAY ON YOUR FEET! STAY ON YOUR FEET! STAY ON YOUR FUCKING FEET!' etc what's Sascha got to work with there? There wasn't much in the way of actual constructive technical advice. Plus, it's easy for Dana to say Sascha should've got to his feet but Gritz (I'm not looking up the ridiculous spelling of his name) had other plans. He wasn't going to let him up. And there's fatigue and other factors that make the 'just get back to your feet' advice a bit redundant. It's almost as silly as if a football manager just stood on the line shouting 'score a goal, just score a goal' over and over again.

[Keith Houchen]

Yeah, the McGregor misogyny is seriously off putting.

[herbie747]

I love Conor but I didn't like how he carried on during the fight this week. I understand his frustration but, fuck me, it was a bit much. Calling Sascha a "bitch" and a "pussy" and stuff. No need for that stuff and it's not going to help your man at all so what's the point? I actually felt a bit sorry for Sascha. Yeah, he didn't perform too well and I'm not saying Conor should be wrapping these guys in cotton wool but it was a bit shitty. I thought the advice he was giving Sascha in the dressing room after the fight wasn't so bad, it's the way he carried on during the fight that I thought wasn't good.

 

It's all well and good Dana going 'he wasn't listening to Conor's advice at all' but when Conor's advice consists of 'GET BACK TO YOUR FEET! STAY ON YOUR FEET! STAY ON YOUR FEET! STAY ON YOUR FUCKING FEET!' etc what's Sascha got to work with there? There wasn't much in the way of actual constructive technical advice. Plus, it's easy for Dana to say Sascha should've got to his feet but Gritz (I'm not looking up the ridiculous spelling of his name) had other plans. He wasn't going to let him up. And there's fatigue and other factors that make the 'just get back to your feet' advice a bit redundant. It's almost as silly as if a football manager just stood on the line shouting 'score a goal, just score a goal' over and over again.

But he did a weak-ass dive at the guys feet from 6ft out at the start of the 3rd round. That was the main thing Conor flipped at. The guy dove on the ground. And he did have a few opportunities to get back up and he pulled guard.

[David]

Thus far it seems McGregor isn't a coach.