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UFC 191: Johnson vs Dodson 2


wandshogun09

Who wins and how?  

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Not that we all didn't think it going in but how shit did Johnson make Manuwa look last night to?

Thing is, I think Manuwa has reached the tip of his personal spear.

 

It ties in a bit with my thoughts on Sage Northcutt in the other thread, but MMA is falling more in-line with other major sports, the level at the top is increasing all the time and I just don't think it's possible to pick up the sport of 27 (especially with no previous combat sport experience) anymore and expect to compete at the top of the division.

 

I think he can hang around a while longer, and can probably pick off veteran fighters north of 30 on the down slope of their career but I just don't see him catching up with the lifelong martial artists in their prime at the top of the division.

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Mouse would look massively undersized at 135. Conor is a natural 155'er who has a hard cut to 145.

 

That will never happen.

Size isn't everything though, as Manny proved in boxing.

 

If Johnson continues steamrolling through his competition he'll need to make a move up at some point. Find himself a proper test.

He needs proper competition, but let's be honest, the Conor fight won't happen unless DJ goes to 155. As that's where Conor seems to be heading.

 

 

There's no chance of him fighting McGregor. The size difference is simply too much, it's a non-starter. I'm just hoping that if he continues his dominance that he eventually faces the likes of Dillashaw, Cruz or even Faber at some point.

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Mike Chiappetta article on a potential Demetrious Johnson vs TJ Dillashaw superfight;

 

DJ vs. TJ: Now Is the Perfect Time to Book Demetrious Johnson vs. T.J. Dillashaw

 

As it turns out, we might not love mixed martial arts the way we claim to. You see, Demetrious Johnson is the living embodiment of what we hoped the sport would turn into.

 

Technically precise, mistake-free, wildly athletic, composed, adaptive. These are the base elements of brilliance that we reject when we shrug our shoulders at Johnson, which many of us often seem to do. And make no mistake, he is nothing short of brilliant.

 

In fact, after wiping out John Dodson for a second time, this time at UFC 191 on Saturday, we've seen enough from Johnson to know that he is peerless in his division. That is why the time is right for him to move up and fight bantamweight champion T.J. Dillashaw.

 

DJ vs. TJ. It has a certain ring to it, a je ne sais quoi that comes when two legitimate champs put their shiny gold belts down and their fists up.

 

"We've had a conversation about bantamweight in the office," an unmarked Johnson said on the post-fight press conference podium, stealing a knowing glance at UFC President Dana White. "He might not remember. I do, clear as day."

 

It makes a surprising amount of sense. During his title reign, Johnson has beaten Nos. 1 (twice), 2 (twice), 4, 6 and 7. The UFC flyweight champion hasn't gotten around to Nos. 3 (Jussier Formiga) and 5 (Henry Cejudo) yet because even superheroes need rest, but does it really matter? By now, he has separated himself from the rest of the divisional pack so completely that it's really not necessary.

 

If the rest of the division has yet to throw up the white flag in his presence, it's only because he's too quick to track down.

 

Besides that, this is prizefighting, and Johnson has unfortunate and real problems. He doesn't draw. He doesn't excite. He doesn't inspire. These are major sources of angst for the insular fight world, which examines the problem from every angle whenever DJ shows up at fight week.

 

From the outside looking in, it is a somewhat strange phenomenon. Major League Baseball media doesn't spend much time examining the horrendous attendance of the Tampa Bay Rays, and NFL scribes don't scratch their heads wondering why DeAndre Hopkins doesn't have the high profile of Dez Bryant, but it's hard to ignore the apathetic reaction that too often accompanies Johnson to his title defenses.

 

It was more of the same on Saturday night in Las Vegas, with far too many jeers and heckles for one of the best fighters walking this spinning orb. "Drunk dummies," White called them in the post-fight press conference, and he may have a point. UFC events are lengthy and draining—true investments of money, emotion and time that can catch fire or devolve into monotony. That volatile dynamic is why the fans demand so much of the headliners.

 

The trick of it all is that few can do it by themselves. Even the best need a rival, a foil who can bring out their best in personality (to sell the fight) and performance (to make it memorable).

 

Dillashaw would seem a good match in that regard, a chance for fans to invest themselves in a Johnson match in a new and meaningful way. However, White didn't seem as interested in the idea as you might have thought, indicating there was some surprise in store for Johnson when he's ready to roll again.

 

"There's always a contender, man," White said. "And we are working on something right now. When it happens, you'll agree."

 

Unless he's in another division, nah, we probably won't.

 

Dillashaw needs Johnson as much as the inverse is true. While Dillashaw is much earlier in his reign—just two successful title defenses to Johnson's seven—only a matchup with former champ Dominick Cruz would offer anything comparable, and Cruz is still officially on the shelf recovering from yet another knee surgery.

 

If Cruz isn't ready, the UFC could do a lot worse than set up two champions who have no other ready-made rivals. The fight itself would be fascinating, a blur of footwork and hand speed. And while Dillashaw would have a clear size advantage, Johnson was no slouch at bantamweight before the UFC instituted his more natural weight class, as he advanced all the way to a championship match loss to Cruz via decision.

 

If the UFC decides against it, there just isn't much in the pipeline to help Johnson boost his Q rating.

 

The problem Johnson has is the same one that Floyd Mayweather Jr. has faced for the longest time in his post-fight feedback: no one enjoys prizefights for their subtlety. Johnson wins in the margins that only true students of the game spend time looking at. His footwork cuts off the cage. His head movement ensures no return target when he fires first. His transitions from striking to grappling to wrestling (and sometimes back) are sublime.

 

The frustration isn't in beating Johnson; it's in getting to him at all.

 

Of the remaining 125ers he hasn't faced, there simply isn't anyone left who inspires hope for a competitive fight. It's a DJ world, earned and deserved. So for those of us who want to see him break through or simply be challenged, T.J. Dillashaw is the answer.

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Going back to what we were on about before - about the possibility of Paige VanZant challenging for the title down the line - this is what Joanna Jedrzejczyk does to faces...

 

cvZd.jpg

 

9Xnwm.jpg

 

Fucking hell! I don't want to see that happen to Paige's little face.

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Demetrious Johnson is now in a stranger position than he was before the fight. Outside of a potential Henry Cejudo fight, Demetrious Johnson has cleaned out the division. The problem is there isn't really a clamouring to see him move to 135lb and fight TJ Dillashaw. When there's been other situations where champions were cleaning out divisions, they were popular and the potential of seeing them move up to face a new challenge was exciting. I ain't feeling that with DJ, it might be something to do with the fact that he's fought a lot at 135lb previously and was nowhere near as effective as he is at 125 (though he's vastly improved), and because he still isn't catching on. There's reports of lowest ticket sales in over 10 years for Saturday's show, and as much as a i agree with him, the hard sell that Rogan spews out during every DJ performance doesn't seem to making any difference. It just ain't happening for him.

 

The other thing that stops a potential fight with TJ is that TJ has so many challenges to take at 135. That division is buzzing at the moment,

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Move DJ fights to the Fox shows or whatever for free for now. Don't think anyone's that interested in paying to see him and your basically ordering a show headlined by him more on the co-main which isn't always a great situation to be in. Stick him on the free shows ust build him as this machine who can't be stopped. Wait till Cruz returns or someone else big enough. Then move him back behind the pay wall. Just think that way you'd maybe get more eyes on him, people following him more closely and that. Then there more likely to be invested in his fights and part with some of their $$

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There is no names at 125 to come in though really. DJ has already beaten the top guys in the division (some of them twice), and those same top guys remain above the level of pretty much everyone else. The scary thing is, DJ is beaten these same guys more comprehensively the second time he fights them, he's getting better.

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They tried building him up through FOX already, to be fair. The Moraga fight was on FOX. Then the second Benavidez fight was also on FOX. And the Benavidez fight was a spectacular first round KO win for DJ. If something like that didn't generate buzz for him then it's hard to imagine what will. Some guys will just never catch on or be a draw no matter how hard the promoters push them or how good a fighter they are.

 

It's a shame because he really is a special fighter. But a combination of his bland personality, a fighting style that isn't for everyone and the fact he's dwarved by his own wife means he's a hard sell in the fight business. It's just the way it is unfortunately. The size thing shouldn't matter and I know there are plenty of examples of small fighters drawing big numbers, but they didn't have both the dull personality and marmite fight style to go with their stunted body. Mayweather has the cunt factor. Pacquiao has the exciting style and likeability. McGregor has the lot - exciting style, likeability, hateability, charisma, the lot. Mighty Mouse has bags of skill and technique but there's no spark there, in cage or out. I like him but he's not someone I get properly excited about watching fight.

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They tried building him up through FOX already, to be fair. The Moraga fight was on FOX. Then the second Benavidez fight was also on FOX. And the Benavidez fight was a spectacular first round KO win for DJ. If something like that didn't generate buzz for him then it's hard to imagine what will. Some guys will just never catch on or be a draw no matter how hard the promoters push them or how good a fighter they are.

 

It's a shame because he really is a special fighter. But a combination of his bland personality, a fighting style that isn't for everyone and the fact he's dwarved by his own wife means he's a hard sell in the fight business. It's just the way it is unfortunately. The size thing shouldn't matter and I know there are plenty of examples of small fighters drawing big numbers, but they didn't have both the dull personality and marmite fight style to go with their stunted body. Mayweather has the cunt factor. Pacquiao has the exciting style and likeability. McGregor has the lot - exciting style, likeability, hateability, charisma, the lot. Mighty Mouse has bags of skill and technique but there's no spark there, in cage or out. I like him but he's not someone I get properly excited about watching fight.

Spot on regarding mighty mouse having little drawing power. Plus I also think in terms of the division overall it probably on mass has the least amount of characters so to speak anyway for him to compete against. And unfortunately you can be as great technically as you like but without any personal nobody gives a shit.

 

Not followed long enough, closely, to cover the Fox stuff so my bad.

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That's true. As uninteresting as Mighty Mouse is outside the cage, who in the division has he really got to bounce off? There's nothing to work with. It's the most devoid of personality division in the UFC easy. John Dodson was the closest thing he had to a rival but he's 0-2 to Johnson now and it never really sparked anyway. Can't see Cejudo being an arch-nemesis type to him either. Flyweight could do with a couple of proper little cunts, with shitloads of talent, to come into the division and start ruffling feathers. It's almost a nice man contest at the moment.

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I think Cejudo could spark some interest. Aside from the Olympic Gold Medal, he's got a bit of an attitude about him.

 

Ian McCall is probably the guy with the most natural star power in the division, he just cant seem to string any wins together and never really lived up to the hype he had coming into the UFC.

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That's true. As uninteresting as Mighty Mouse is outside the cage, who in the division has he really got to bounce off? There's nothing to work with. It's the most devoid of personality division in the UFC easy. John Dodson was the closest thing he had to a rival but he's 0-2 to Johnson now and it never really sparked anyway. Can't see Cejudo being an arch-nemesis type to him either. Flyweight could do with a couple of proper little cunts, with shitloads of talent, to come into the division and start ruffling feathers. It's almost a nice man contest at the moment.

 

Johnson didn't play ball there though. He had an opportunity to at least try and engage Dodson before the fight and give it a bit of hype but he just didn't. I remember listening to his appearance on the MMA hour a month or so back and he just refused to indulge Helwani when he was stirring it up about Dodson.

 

On the topic of Manuwa: has he ever actually looked that good in the UFC? He beat Kinsbury who was already 2 fights into a 4 fight losing streak. Then he had those 2 freak doctor stoppages against Jimmo and Diabate. Gusty blew him away and Rumble totally out classed him. Pains me to say it because he's a Brit, but he's lived a pretty charmed life and has been punching well above his wait through lucky circumstance in the UFC if you ask me.

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