UFC 188: Velasquez vs Werdum

[wandshogun09]

That was nuts.

 

Werdum now has the best win column in heavyweight MMA history bar none. Ended Fedor's reign of terror and subbed him in a minute. Knocked out Mark Hunt with a flying knee. Outstruck Travis Browne for five rounds. Submitted Big Nog in Brazil. Now he's gone and submitted Cain Velasquez in Mexico!! Mental shit. He's been inconsistent at points in his career but he's on top of the world now and you can make a legit case for him being the best heavyweight in MMA history after tonight.

 

Rafael Cordeiro has coach of the year sewn up. How do you top what he's helped happen this year with Dos Anjos and Werdum in particular? They didn't just have great performances and win titles, they flipped the pound-for-pound discussion on its head.

 

Great show. I can't be arsed to go into the rest right now but I'm glad I stayed up for this one.

[buba3d]

velasquez just didn't look right, he looked slow and sluggish at times and then when he had fabrico on the ground it was like he didn't know how to proceed, either that or he was weary of fabrico catching him, fabrico caught him a belter in the opening minute or so and from that moment it was pretty much all werdum.

 

alvarez and melendez was bloody fantastic, god i'm so gonna watch that fight again.

[d-d-d-dAz]

I feel sorry for Werdum, the amount of excuses being made for Velasquez is nuts.

 

I'm sure coming back from 20 months was difficult, sure, but I have no sympathy when it comes to altitude. Train for altitude you fucking dickhead. And, actually, he wouldn't have so many injury issues if he didn't train like a nob. Look at the video of him doing leg extensions. The fucking nutter.

 

Velasquez looked out of sorts, sure, but mostly because he tried to push the pace and hit in volume; and Werdum stood up to it, weathered his shots, and scored the significant shot leaving every exchange. He punched the life out of Velasquez with some really slick, tight boxing. He forced him into a position where Velasquez had to takedown the best jiu-jitsu guy in the division. A perfect gameplan.

 

I hope when people become less concerned with making sure they weren't wrong, and Cain lost for other reasons than Werdum being ace, that Fabricio gets the credit he deserves. He seems like an incredible bloke.

[METAL ON METAL]

Cracking main event. Amazing performance by Werdum, I hope he gets the full credit he deserves for that domination.

 

I've never took a shine to Cain (admire his talent but he's just so meh as a person) and can't stand AKA or that dick Javier Mendez, so I'm very happy with the result. Plus Werdum always seems like one of the happiest/most cheery guys around, delighted for him.

 

As Daz says, it's his own fault for not taking the altitude seriously (or at least his teams negligence) when you've got Werdum secluded for months on a Mexican ranch with minimal social contact.

 

Plus I don't buy the whole cage rustiness. You know your body better than anyone and know if you're ready for it, it's your own responsibility to be prepared for it. If Cruz can come back in such dominant fashion after injuries (and timeframe) not even on the same scale, you can have no excuses.

 

Another reason this is a good result is it completely opens up the heavyweight division again and makes it feel fresh with new challengers. JDS must be the happiest fucker in the world right now... Well, no different to usual really.

[Ross18]

That was crazy!

 

Im a Cain fan. But you can't take that away from Werdum. He's been brilliant recently and that was just an amazing performance. He got himself sorted and has been in Mexico a while and made sure the altitude wasn't a problem for himself. Whereas Cain just didn't get himself prepared correctly. The heavyweight division has now become one of the most exciting things now. You've got a whole list of guys who could be next for Werdum. 

 

Melendez v Alvarez wasn't as wild as expected. But I really enjoyed it. I thought Eddie was done when he only had the one eye. But he's tough as hell and won those last two rounds. I scored it 29-28 Alvarez. So the judges got it spot on overall I felt.

[METAL ON METAL]

Forgot to mention, Yair Rodriguez impressed me a lot last night. First time I'd seen him but he looks very promising and so much fun to watch.

 

Fully deserved POTN. That leg/head switch kick was insane!

[David]

He's been inconsistent at points in his career but he's on top of the world now and you can make a legit case for him being the best heavyweight in MMA history after tonight.

 

I'm not sure I'd go quite that far yet, maybe if he manages to make some solid defences against a number of top ranked contenders he's in with a shout, but it'll take a fair bit to overshadow the sheer win streak of Fedor. He's right up there though.

 

Did I imagine it or did Javier Mendez make a remark about the amount of time Cain spent in Mexico prior to the fight on the 1st episode of embedded? I'm sure he said something about having to insist that Cain either went down to Mexico or continued training or something?

[Guy Bifkin]

Forgot to mention, Yair Rodriguez impressed me a lot last night. First time I'd seen him but he looks very promising and so much fun to watch.

 

Fully deserved POTN. That leg/head switch kick was insane!

 

He looked brilliant. Not a UFC event seems to go by these days without a fantastic looking featherweight prospect stealing the show.

 

What a performance from Werdum though. I remember watching the last Cain fight and thinking no one could touch him at HW and then Werdum absolutely schools him in his own back yard. It really is the best thing for the heavyweight division, with some cool match ups in prospect. I'm guessing we'll get JDS v Werdum now and I'd really like to see Stipe v Cain. Obviously Arlovski is in the mix too.

 

I'll watch the prelims later but the Torres fight was cack and Melendez v Alvarez didn't quite catch fire. Gastelum looked very good. 

[textonly]

I don't think people are making excuses for Velasquez exactly - ultimately you can only blame him and his coaching team for their ill preparation - but I do think it's fair to say that Werdum didn't beat the real Cain Velasquez last night. He looked so unlike the fighter he has always been. The guy's defined by his cardio and workrate and last night... he was absolutely dead on his feet in no time at all. Werdum did everything right against a fighter who seemingly got it completely wrong.

I say that, by the way, as someone who really wanted Werdum to win. I don't want to take it away from him. I'm really happy he won and I agree with wand that it puts him in the upper echelon of all-time heavyweights. I just feel like if they meet again in 6-12 months and the fight takes place in Vegas or wherever, it would probably look very different. I'm not saying Werdum would definitely lose or anything, just that there's no way the fight looks anything like it did last night. I just can't believe that, for all Rafael Cordeiro's work, Werdum could dismantle a 100% Cain with strikes like he did last night. It was completely unreal.
 

Happy all the same.

[David]

I don't think people are making excuses for Velasquez exactly - ultimately you can only blame him and his coaching team for their ill preparation - but I do think it's fair to say that Werdum didn't beat the real Cain Velasquez last night. He looked so unlike the fighter he has always been. The guy's defined by his cardio and workrate and last night... he was absolutely dead on his feet in no time at all. Werdum did everything right against a fighter who seemingly got it completely wrong.

 

I say that, by the way, as someone who really wanted Werdum to win. I don't want to take it away from him. I'm really happy he won and I agree with wand that it puts him in the upper echelon of all-time heavyweights. I just feel like if they meet again in 6-12 months and the fight takes place in Vegas or wherever, it would probably look very different. I'm not saying Werdum would definitely lose or anything, just that there's no way the fight looks anything like it did last night. I just can't believe that, for all Rafael Cordeiro's work, Werdum could dismantle a 100% Cain with strikes like he did last night. It was completely unreal.

 

Happy all the same.

 

I disagree, it was the real Velasquez he beat last night. Cain knew the score, he's been quick to tell every fucker within earshot that he's Mexican for the past few years so he should have known the situation regarding the air pressure. Everyone else seemed to know it.

 

Put simply, he fucked up in his preparation. That's on him, and is much a part of his makeup as his skills in the cage. Werdum beat him fair & square.

[wandshogun09]

I definitely didn't call Werdum winning but I did say this on page 1...

 

Assuming he's the Cain we're familiar with though, I think he wins. Even as improved as Werdum is, it's just a hard as fuck fight for him. Saying that, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of Werdum getting the better of the striking. And if he does, will Cain risk taking him down? We've never seen Cain in a guard like Werdum's so really, all bets are off there. His BJJ hasn't really been put to the test because he's been so dominant he usually dictates where the fight takes place. But I could see a scenario where Werdum catches Cain with some strikes, Cain shoots for a takedown...then he's in Werdum's world. Cain is awesome but he's not inhuman.

Didn't think it would actually end up happening though.

 

He forced him into a position where Velasquez had to takedown the best jiu-jitsu guy in the division. A perfect gameplan.

That's the most amazing bit for me. When I first heard Werdum's name he was literally just Cro Cop's jiu-jitsu coach. Now he's at the point where his striking is as big a part of his arsenal as his grappling. I thought exactly what you've put in that quote there last night. I think it was after round two and you could hear Javier Mendez in the corner going to Cain 'OK, Cain, you've gotta take him down'. In what world would a top MMA coach tell his fighter to takedown the best BJJ guy arguably in the sport, much less the heavyweight division. But as you say, Werdum left them no other choice.

 

I wonder how long it'll be before Javier Mendez publicly obsolves himself of any blame in the loss this time? Like when he threw Cain under the bus for 'not following the gameplan' when JDS knocked him out years ago. Can't say too much this time though, when you can audibly hear him ordering the takedown that would be Cain's demise.

 

I agree with what everyone's saying about the altitude. Everybody knew the high altitude could be a factor on this event. I think it was probably worse than most of the fighters expected though. Even cardio freaks like Melendez and Alvarez were sucking wind by mid-round twoish. But everyone was in the same boat. Anyone using it as an excuse for Cain is clutching at straws. Go back and watch the fight and you'll see Werdum was knackered as well. There were points where he looked like he could barely move and was breathing through his arse. But he fought much more intelligently and picked his shots and made them count whereas Cain was trying to go 100 miles an hour and didn't have enough gas to get home. The altitude thing is an obstacle to overcome for everyone on the card. Werdum factored it into his camp fully. Watch the first episode of Embedded and you'll see the whole setup he had going on there. He was living at high altitude and had all his coaches with him 24/7. If Cain didn't allow the proper time to acclimatise then that's his own fault. It's no excuse. If you're fighting in Mexico you should be preparing for the altitude almost as much as you prepare for your opponent.

 

I love the sound of doing Cain vs Miocic next. Great shout. And I'd do Werdum vs JDS 2 for the title and Arlovski vs Overeem. Wouldn't surprise me if they go with Werdum vs Cain 2 though. If they do that I'd do Miocic vs Arlovski and JDS vs Overeem. Either way there's some awesome fights you can make at the top of the division now.

[David]

I agree with what everyone's saying about the altitude. Everybody knew the high altitude could be a factor on this event. I think it was probably worse than most of the fighters expected though. Even cardio freaks like Melendez and Alvarez were sucking wind by mid-round twoish. But everyone was in the same boat. Anyone using it as an excuse for Cain is clutching at straws. Go back and watch the fight and you'll see Werdum was knackered as well. There were points where he looked like he could barely move and was breathing through his arse. But he fought much more intelligently and picked his shots and made them count whereas Cain was trying to go 100 miles an hour and didn't have enough gas to get home. The altitude thing is an obstacle to overcome for everyone on the card. Werdum factored it into his camp fully. Watch the first episode of Embedded and you'll see the whole setup he had going on there. He was living at high altitude and had all his coaches with him 24/7. If Cain didn't allow the proper time to acclimatise then that's his own fault. It's no excuse. If you're fighting in Mexico you should be preparing for the altitude almost as much as you prepare for your opponent.

 

I wouldn't say it was an excuse, I've said as much above, but when a main factor of your gameplan and skillset is your cardio it really does play a huge part, and it was certainly a bigger factor for Velasquez than it was Werdum.

 

It was a major reason as to why he lost, but it was entirely his own fault.

[wandshogun09]

I completely forgot to mention the other fights I was so blown away by Werdum's performance.

 

I really liked Alvarez vs Melendez. It wasn't the FOTY classic type fight I'd built it up as in my head but I thought it was excellent all the same. Different kind of fight than I envisioned. Slightly slower pace (think they were both wary of the altitude) and I think Alvarez getting cracked in the eye early played a part as he seemed to change his tactics to grappling after that, I guess because he was struggling to see the punches coming. Good fight though. I'd love to see a rematch down the line, preferably over five rounds and at normal altitude. It was one of those fights where it ended and I thought 'I wish there was another two rounds of this'. It seemed like they were just starting to really let loose in the third, then it was over.

 

Glad Alvarez won as well, although I'm a fan of them both. He needed the win slightly more IMO. Rogan keep going on like the Cerrone fight showed Alvarez couldn't hang in the UFC was grating on me a tad. It was one fight and against a Cerrone whose in the best form of his career. And he had his moments. It wasn't evidence that he can't cut it in the UFC or some "wake up call" as Rogan made out. There's not many guys in the UFC lightweight division who could beat Alvarez the way Cowboy did.

 

Rodriguez vs Rosa was fantastic. Cain vs Werdum was great and had the big moment of Werdum dethroning Cain but on pure in-cage action, I thought this was the best fight of the night. Awesome transitions on the ground and non-stop offence from both in all positions. The featherweight division is on fire at the minute.

 

Gastelum vs Marquardt was a good fight with a slightly flat ending. Nate fought well in spells but Gastelum was just too relentless and kept catching him with good shots. I don't know if Nate's 'I've got nothing left' on the stool was so much about this fight or his career in general. I can see him packing it in, to be honest. He's not a particularly old bloke but he's been around fucking ages. He started young and he's had some hard fights and been on the wrong end of some vicious knockouts in his time. MMA is a ruthless sport and time doesn't stand still. Gastelum is the new breed and Marquardt is the old lion that can't quite keep up anymore.

 

Really disappointed in Torres vs Hill. I thought their styles would match up perfectly but it was shit. I don't know what's happened to Tecia Torres. She was such an exciting fighter to watch in Invicta but she's been really lacklustre since her TUF stint. She's become an almost overly safe fighter but what made her popular and got her the bit of hype she had going into TUF was the attacking style she showed in her earlier Invicta fights. Her fight with Rose Namajunas is probably my favourite women's MMA fight ever. Last night she looked like a totally different fighter.

 

Is Henry Cejudo the lovechild of Frank Shamrock? Fucking hell.

 

Oh and it was cool to see Juan Manuel Marquez there.

[textonly]

I disagree, it was the real Velasquez he beat last night. Cain knew the score, he's been quick to tell every fucker within earshot that he's Mexican for the past few years so he should have known the situation regarding the air pressure. Everyone else seemed to know it.

 

Put simply, he fucked up in his preparation. That's on him, and is much a part of his makeup as his skills in the cage. Werdum beat him fair & square.

 

 

Yeah, like I said, I agree it's Cain's fault - you can only blame him for failing to prepare for altitude or adjust his gameplan for it - I just mean that I'm blaming the massive tactical fuck-up on Cain's part rather than accepting last night's fight as a true indicator of the general skill difference between the two fighters. I feel like if Cain does everything exactly the same but the fight takes place in Vegas? There's a decent chance you're looking at a different result. Props to Werdum for being smarter, more prepared and executing perfectly - he deserved his win -  but honestly I kind of look forward to seeing a rematch (somewhere along the line, not immediately). I'd love to see how the skills match up without altitude being a factor. Last night was massively impressive from Werdum. Another win in more generic conditions would be even more so for me, even if it was much less dominant in nature.

[ColinBollocks]

It was a beautiful finish to a gruelling, gripping main event. Not sure anybody thought Velasquez would end up looking like me after a flight of stairs, but it happened after only a round. I guess we'll find out in the coming year or two whether Velasquez is no longer superman, but for sure Werdum was on another level last night and made Velasquez look like a lesser man. Can't wait for a re-match between the pair - hopefully Dana White makes it immediately. I'd put Werdum's performance right up there with Dos Anjos' as the best of the year. Altitude or not (and they were both fighting under the same conditions, so lets kill that excuse), you can't help but appreciate a fighter doing that to a man many consider(ed) the greatest heavyweight in history.

 

Bar the opener, the rest of the card was entertaining. Rodriquez v Rosa was a brilliant watch, I thought, as it was relentless and full of crazy action.

 

Prelims featured two brilliant finishes from Williams and Escudero. Cejudo's excuse for being less than dominant is interesting; apparently he suffered food poisoning a couple of days before the fight, hence the awful weight cut. Not sure if that's legit, or an excuse to keep Dana White from demanding he goes up a weight.