Jump to content

UFC 188: Velasquez vs Werdum


wandshogun09

Who wins and how?  

15 members have voted

You do not have permission to vote in this poll, or see the poll results. Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

Recommended Posts

 

Does anyone actually think that a fit and healthy Cain will see a win for anyone other than ol' pillowhands?

 

I don't actually understand that sentence. Who's pillowhands? Bisping?

 

 

You must have missed the build up to Cain vs Brock. Kenny McBride (remember him?) referred to Cain as having "pillow hands" when it came to punching power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 83
  • Created
  • Last Reply
  • Paid Members

Whatever doubts anyone may have had on Cain's power before, he's erased all doubt now that he can crack.

 

Take JDS as the example.

 

JDS may be the most durable heavyweight in the sport at the moment. It's either him or Roy Nelson for me. With Hunt just behind. JDS is granite. Dangerously tough (and I mean as in a danger to his own health). Before the Cain fights, JDS had fought some of the heaviest handed heavyweights in MMA. Roy Nelson tagged him, Shane Carwin caught him clean a few times, Gilbert Yvel landed some flush punches. Nothing. JDS' expression didn't even change.

 

But when JDS fought Pillow Hands the second time...

 

iY1Lc2Ig56k3I.gif

 

That was the first time we ever saw JDS legit hurt in a fight. And the fight was as good as done the second that punch landed. It was only JDS' stupid toughness that kept him going on auto-pilot.

 

Cain is a different breed. I'm not saying he's the most powerful striker in the division. I think Carwin may have had the most raw power of any heavyweight in UFC history. Overeem, JDS, Hunt, Browne...I'd say they're all more powerful strikers than Cain. But Cain's biggest strength as a striker is probably his timing and ability to mix his striking with his grappling. For a guy from a wrestling background he looks so natural as a striker now. And that wasn't always the case (see the Kongo fight). He's worked his arse off to get better. That was the difference in why Cain was able to hurt JDS and more powerful strikers couldn't. He timed his punches to perfection and JDS didn't know when a punch or a takedown was coming. For all Cain's physical strengths, his fight intelligence is often underestimated IMO.

 

It's why I don't think he'll risk taking Werdum down in this fight and maximise Werdum's chances of winning. And that's also why I wouldn't rule out Werdum because Werdum might be the first opponent Cain's faced who won't fear the takedown at all. Werdum will welcome Cain taking him down. So not only might Cain not have the luxury of using his wrestling fully in this fight, it could also effect Cain's ability to strike as effectively. So much of Cain's success in striking comes from him using the threat of the takedown to set up punches. But what happens when you've got an opponent like Fabricio Werdum who won't see the takedown threat as a threat? Very interesting fight when you think about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

 

 

Does anyone actually think that a fit and healthy Cain will see a win for anyone other than ol' pillowhands?

 

I don't actually understand that sentence. Who's pillowhands? Bisping?

 

 

You must have missed the build up to Cain vs Brock. Kenny McBride (remember him?) referred to Cain as having "pillow hands" when it came to punching power.

 

Ah, okay - I assumed pillowhands was someone else, thereby making your sentence very confusing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

Cain is a different breed. I'm not saying he's the most powerful striker in the division. I think Carwin may have had the most raw power of any heavyweight in UFC history. Overeem, JDS, Hunt, Browne...I'd say they're all more powerful strikers than Cain. But Cain's biggest strength as a striker is probably his timing and ability to mix his striking with his grappling. For a guy from a wrestling background he looks so natural as a striker now. And that wasn't always the case (see the Kongo fight). He's worked his arse off to get better. That was the difference in why Cain was able to hurt JDS and more powerful strikers couldn't. He timed his punches to perfection and JDS didn't know when a punch or a takedown was coming. For all Cain's physical strengths, his fight intelligence is often underestimated IMO.

 

It's why I don't think he'll risk taking Werdum down in this fight and maximise Werdum's chances of winning. And that's also why I wouldn't rule out Werdum because Werdum might be the first opponent Cain's faced who won't fear the takedown at all. Werdum will welcome Cain taking him down. So not only might Cain not have the luxury of using his wrestling fully in this fight, it could also effect Cain's ability to strike as effectively. So much of Cain's success in striking comes from him using the threat of the takedown to set up punches. But what happens when you've got an opponent like Fabricio Werdum who won't see the takedown threat as a threat? Very interesting fight when you think about it.

 

I mind Paul Heyman (a number of years ago) bringing up the fact that Velasquez is like something from a horror movie, because his punches have a habit of cutting holes in people faces, leaving them a bloody mess and giving them permanent scars as a nice reminder that they were mauled by him. As you were saying, wand, he seems to be incredible accurate with his striking, which causes all sorts of damage.

 

The guy is a cold calculated killing machine, and I wish the UFC would play that angle more than the boring humble Mexican stuff. Hopefully 2015 Velasquez is still the same 2013 one that was maybe the best heavyweight ever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

If you somehow missed it at the time, the UFC have uploaded the full 2013 FOTY candidate between Gilbert Melendez and Diego Sanchez to their YouTube channel.

 

Watch it;

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=w4LD6MdrBhQ

 

And to even things up, here's a 2008 FOTY candidate between Eddie Alvarez and Tatsuya Kawajiri from DREAM...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=cLFW16d2oi0

 

Just a week away now. Can't fucking wait.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

Sorry for the triple post but this is tomorrow lads. Come on. Even shite like UFC 174 and 177 got more discussion than this. And it's not even a bad card. You've got the best heavyweight (maybe ever) in MMA returning, Melendez vs Alvarez which is a long time coming fight that should be awesome. You've got Kelvin Gastelum and Tecia Torres on the main card who are both exciting fighters.

 

Here's the Unibet breakdown from Dan Hardy and John Gooden...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&persist_app=1&v=74dGQ0bvIIc

 

There's been three or four episodes of Embedded as well. Weigh in is tonight. The time is n...tomorrow. Give this card some love, will ya?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

I think the bombardment of having a UFC every weekend has massively harmed my excitement for this show. It's a good looking card, and it should be a huge deal that we're getting to see Cain fight, but there's so much product at the moment that I struggle to have the time to keep up with watching everything, never mind stopping to think about an upcoming show.

 

I'm hoping I can watch the Countdown and Embedded shows in the next day or two and get excited, but as it currently stands it feels like they're more overexposed than ever and this show is the biggest victim of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

I feel the same way Supremo. It also is partly down to being a bit spoiled this year - and especially coming off the phenomenal last PPV. You can't really complain about the card when that's the case.

 

Cain vanishing for a few years has really made me lose a bit of interest in him. I think wand touched on it when this got announced; why get invested and hyped for a fighter that can't fart without his spleen falling out.

 

The interest, for me, is seeing if Velasquez has lost any of his super powers. Be a right shame if injury stopped his ascent to that GOAT title he was earning after the JDS trilogy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the bombardment of having a UFC every weekend has massively harmed my excitement for this show. It's a good looking card, and it should be a huge deal that we're getting to see Cain fight, but there's so much product at the moment that I struggle to have the time to keep up with watching everything, never mind stopping to think about an upcoming show.

Agreed.

 

Plus, Boxing has been on fire the past few months. There has been a big fight almost every weekend. Combat sport has spoilt us lately. Still up for Kimbo vs Shammers though. That is the real clash of the titans, none of this Melendez vs Alvarez nonsense. 

 

Cain's layoff, and Werdum's resurgence has seemingly convinced fans that an upset could occur. I saw a poll the other day where some 30-40% of voters were predicting a Werdum victory. I don't see it myself, for reasons I stated earlier in the thread. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

Yeah I guess this card has kind of been lost in the shuffle. I guess it doesn't help that it's been sandwiched between UFC 187 and 189 which were/are two of the biggest cards of the year as well.

 

Just looking at the recent schedule, I guess it shouldn't shock me really that this one's taken a hit on hype. When was the last week with no UFC on?

 

Last week/Jun 6th - Hendo vs Boetsch

May 30th - Condit vs Alves

May 23rd - UFC 187

May 16th - Edgar vs Faber

May 10th - Hunt vs Miocic

 

That wax the last gap in the schedule. Over a month ago. And it didn't feel like a gap because Mayweather vs Pacquiao was on right around then. Then before that you had...

 

Apr 25th - UFC 186

Apr 18th - Machida vs Rockhold

Apr 11th - Cro Cop vs Gonzaga 2

Apr 4th - Mendes vs Lamas

 

...week after week before the next break in the schedule.

 

The schedule they are on these days is mental. Even as much as I love MMA, I struggle to keep up now at times. I used to stay up to watch nearly every show live but I'm finding I'm being a lot more selective when it comes to that now. If there's a fight or card I'm massively excited about I'll try and catch it live but it's getting less and less. I'll most likely stay up for this 188 card though. Cain's return would enough in itself but I'm intrigued by the matchup with Werdum and if Cain's layoff will be a factor at all. And there's no way I'll get to sleep knowing Melendez vs Alvarez is going down half way round the globe so I'm up for this.

 

Even then though, the schedule effects everything. Part of me likes that on any given weekend, I can probably catch a UFC show live on telly if I want. That would've been heaven when I first started watching in 2005. The days when you'd have to watch the PPVs on Bravo on 24 hour delay with a shitload of breaks, then you'd have to wait two whole months for the next show. But that also made the anticipation for shows better and you'd have to scour the internet to hype yourself up. Now there's so many cards you don't get that. Not that you don't want to or you're enthusiasm is waning, you just don't get time to breathe between shows long enough to start really feeling the buzz for the next one. One show ends and you're immediately hit with another. They come so thick and fast you forget what's coming up and shows like this sneak up on you.

 

Just looking at the last couple of weeks alone. Say you knocked the last two Fight Nights off the schedule. This is the card you could've done for UFC 188...

 

PPV MAIN CARD

Cain Velasquez vs Fabricio Werdum - HW Title

Gilbert Melendez vs Eddie Alvarez

Carlos Condit vs Thiago Alves

Dan Henderson vs Tim Boetsch

Kelvin Gastelum vs Nate Marquardt

 

FOX SPORTS 1 PRELIMS

Charles Oliveira vs Nik Lentz 2

Henry Cejudo vs Chico Camus

Thiago Tavares vs Brian Ortega

Dustin Poirier vs Yancy Medeiros

 

FIGHT PASS PRELIMS

Augusto Montano vs Cathal Pendred

Tecia Torres vs Angela Hill

Francisco Rivera vs Alex Caceres

 

Just shaving off two cards. A two week breather on the schedule and then that card above. It would get people buzzing more IMO.

 

I understand they can't do this now. They're too far in with their commitments to the schedule. They couldn't scale back now even if they wanted to. But personally, I'd much prefer it this way. A few less cards but fill out the ones they do hold with more quality instead of just having a couple of good fights then a load of filler which is becoming the norm now, apart from cards they really push the boat out with like 187 and 189.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

bit weird that leading into the UFC's first show in Mexico both Fabricio Werdum & Eddie Alvarez have given their opponents the 'fake Mexican' treatment to their opponents. Apparently Cain is irked...Werdum is going to die.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Paid Members

Werdum doesn't give a fuck :D

 

i read somewhere online that if Werdum beats Velasquez tomorrow is there a case for him to be labelled the greatest heavyweight ever? inconsistency tells me no, but if you want to line up Werdum's win-list it stacks up against anyone's in the divisions history...

 

Fedor Emelianenko, Alistair Overeem, Tom Erikson, Alexander Emelianenko, Gabriel Gonzaga x2, Travis Browne, Mark Hunt, Bigfoot Silva, Big Nog, Roy Nelson, Brandon Vera...

 

few heavyweight's have racked up that kind of that resume, it's the nature of some of the wins too...Werdum is the fucking man. Top 5 for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...