Moderators PowerButchi Posted March 25, 2015 Moderators Share Posted March 25, 2015 I was just wondering how much wrestling has changed in the big picture, if at all booking wise? My theory is that the basics of booking from yeeeeeeeeears ago still work great today, it's all about changing details to make it a bit more modern. I don't think "Personal Issues Draw Money" will ever not be good booking, for example. Â So yeah, what do you think? Still basically the same? Or do old basic booking ideas hold no truck today? Is a good story a good story forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexy Dad Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I think a feud which was very much all about the basics was Rusev vs Jack Swagger last year. There was no convoluted plot or harking back to another era, it was just two guys on either side of the fence ready to lamp each other for their cause. Â It bloody worked too, Swagger became a favourite! No easy task after years of treading water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 25, 2015 I think the product that people seem to like most at the moment, NXT, is very basic pro-wrestling. Â Characters people understand with motivation they either like or dislike and stories that don't require much thought to follow. Â They present issues you want to see resolved and build basically to that end point. It's not old fashioned, it has a modern look and they work at a reasonable pace but it's principles are very simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Linus Posted March 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 25, 2015 Find someone people like. Put him in peril by someone people don't like. Have him overcome the odds. Repeat, ad nauseum. It's not just wrestling, it's storytelling of all kinds. Â How you do all that can change, but should still follow the same basic principles. However, it is getting tougher to get people over as babyfaces in this cynical world we live in, and that's a challenge. Â NXT achieves that by sticking very closely to the pure concepts of the babyface - he does things you can't do but always tries to do the right thing, even though the wrong thing might be the easier way. So uber-babyface Sami Zayn earned his spurs by plugging away at his dream and never compromising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 It depends on what level you're at, and which company. In WWE, you can't really build a top babyface anymore for your hardcore TV taping/PPV show attendees. The ending to the Rumble this year, for example. If that had been Barbarian and Warlord eliminating Duggan, Jake and Tugboat before getting eliminated by Hogan against the odds, people would have loved it. The vocal minority of the fanbase is more cynical now. Â A lot of heels have a hard time getting boos as well, for the same reason, but that's partly because they want to be cheered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undefeated Steak Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I want to see Wrestler A beat Wrestler B. It sounds simple but that's because it is. That's when wrestling's at its best. Just give me a reason to care and believe in what I'm seeing. The fundamentals that were perfected in the 70's and 80's still hold true today. That's why Funk, Hogan, Lawler and Rhodes will go down as some of the best ever. You can watch one of their promos now and you want to be with them every step of the way. It should be the heel's job to work opposite that. Keep it simple but give it a modern twist. There needs to be a reason why I want see wrestler A win, and a reason why I want to see wrestler B get beaten up.  It's why the streak matches were so good. You cared about the outcome. They wouldn't have been half as good if it wasn't for the streak. There's been some good points made already about NXT. The Sami Zayn storyline was one of the best WWE have done in years and it was textbook 101 stuff.  There's too much tweenerism going on now. WWE need to create a clear face/heel divide again. It's a struggle working out who's meant to be the good guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 25, 2015 You think? Outside of the IC title match whichever blurring the lines short term, the only person I can think of who is a genuine tweener is Mizdow. Â There are heels people like but that's not really the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undefeated Steak Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 You think? Outside of the IC title match whichever blurring the lines short term, the only person I can think of who is a genuine tweener is Mizdow. Â There are heels people like but that's not really the same thing. Â I do. 'Struggle' is obviously an exaggeration, but I do think there needs to be more focus on the face/heel divide. The modern crowds don't help though, certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members stumobir Posted March 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 25, 2015 We live in an age of anti-heroes, it's everywhere, not just wrestling. Look at some of the most popular tv characters of the last decade, Tony Soprano, Dexter Morgan, Walter White etc all bad guys that you're supposed to root for. People don't like to cheer on the white meat babyface anymore. Could say it started with Austin, now these are the guys that will incessantly boo Cena and chant for Punk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undefeated Steak Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 We live in an age of anti-heroes, it's everywhere, not just wrestling. Look at some of the most popular tv characters of the last decade, Tony Soprano, Dexter Morgan, Walter White etc all bad guys that you're supposed to root for. People don't like to cheer on the white meat babyface anymore. Could say it started with Austin, now these are the guys that will incessantly boo Cena and chant for Punk. It doesn't mean that it's working for wrestling, though. You'll alway get a section of the audience who'll cheer for the bad guy. Â Look at that Lawler Miz feud a few years ago. Everybody was behind Lawler. That was as clear cut as it gets and it was ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted March 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 25, 2015 WWE are also not writing anti-heroes. There's nothing remotely cool or likeable about Seth Rollins character for example. That's the thing you can't quite factor in to this debate. Pro-wrestling is utterly simple. Unless the audience like someone for reasons beyond your control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members stumobir Posted March 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 25, 2015 Punk's face runs felt very anti-heroesque, whether they were supposed to or not I don't know but it went a long way to getting him over. Â Wyatt is also supposed to be a heel but feels much more like the bad guy you're supposed to like, the city name before the entrance prompting a pop, the phones out, the sing-along-song. Â It's easy to book a bad guy and make him unlikable, Rollins a perfect example. Cowardly, ass-kissing, shirks matches etc. Pure babyfaces just remind everyone of that guy we've all worked with, overly nice, always trying to help you, says crap instead of shit. You know he's a good guy but inside you're screaming for him to fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members air_raid Posted March 25, 2015 Paid Members Share Posted March 25, 2015 The simplest idea in wrestling booking that I still feel holds merit is the idea of creating the issue between two guys, making the people want to see the match, then making them pay to see it. Now, with all the TV the WWE have to produce these days, you can't literally save every match with intrigue for a PPV the first time it's going to happen, but there's still a load of merit to trying to preserve stuff where possible since the current approach of everyone wrestling each other repeatedly on free TV means there's no desire to go out of your way to see the PPV. This is part of the reason we're all wet for Lesnar ; he IS kept special. Personally, I was really looking forward to Fast Lane too because they had managed to make me want to see Cena/Rusev and Reigns/Bryan since they hadn't been done to death on TV. I know "paying for it" is a bit more abstract now we have The Network, but there's still a case for keeping something back for the big show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shane O' Mac Version 2 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Pro wrestling is such a unique medium, in that the crowd dictates so much of what the entertainment is, especially in the modern era. Peter Dinklage doesn't play to a live audience that will boo him, necessitating him killing the Sansa Stark character. WWE are so much at the whim of their audience, and they have to be. Otherwise, you get Roman Reigns. Â Wrestling is all about "giving people what they want", but it's very difficult to please everyone. Attitude Era was lucky because the majority of society were into this anti-establishment thing- South Park, Jerry Springer, rock music etc. Now, WWE is trying to cater to such wide demographics that it's hard for them to truly connect with any of them. I'd say you'll always have the kids- look at the mid-90s with Bret- but everyone outside the kids are the difference between a boom period and just getting by. Â To answer the question clearly- I personally think the basics of storytelling work. NXT has some great compelling stories, simple good guy/bad guy stuff with developed character and strong wrestling action. But I'm only one person. What was once a good idea for the masses might not work for everyone now. Tastes change, people are more diverse. Instead of WWE reaching out to people going, "Please like us." they should focus on one identity or direction. Establish what WWE is, and not this wishy-washy "variety show" crap. Present a consistent, cohesive product, the hardcores will be on board. The kids will always love it. The parents might appreciate a renewed effort on a simple "storytelling/action" hybrid. Keep it simple, don't make it Nickelodeon, but don't make it some inaccessible adult thing either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drkopen Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I only really dip in and out of WWE but what strikes me is that once they are in the ring the heels don't do anything heelish. Â Come in cold and with the sound down and you wouldn't know who was heel or face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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