UFC 174: Johnson vs Bagautinov

[wandshogun09]

 

PPV MAIN CARD

Demetrious Johnson vs Ali Bagautinov - UFC Flyweight Title

Rory MacDonald vs Tyron Woodley

Ryan Bader vs Rafael Cavalcante

Andrei Arlovski vs Brendan Schaub

Ovince St Preux vs Ryan Jimmo

 

FOX SPORTS 1 PRELIMS

Daniel Sarafian vs Kiichi Kunimoto

Valerie Letourneau vs Elizabeth Phillips

Yves Jabouin vs Mike Easton

Tae Hyun Bang vs Kajan Johnson

 

FIGHT PASS PRELIMS

Roland Delorme vs Michinori Tanaka

Josh Shockley vs Jason Saggo

 

Not that there's no good stuff here, but this is pretty fucking weak for PPV. There's no getting around it. It actually looks more like a FOX or FOX Sports 1 card. Fuck, I'd argue that the last FOX card with Werdum vs Browne was stronger.

 

Johnson vs Bagautinov isn't the type of fight that will get a lot of hype going in. It's a good fight but it feels like something is lacking. Then again, we thought that about Barao vs Dillashaw as well. Who the fuck knows really with MMA?

 

There's been a lot of pound-for-pound talk recently and it's all been about Jon Jones and Renan Barao. But I think Demetrious Johnson is overlooked in that discussion. Not that pound-for-pound actually means anything. Yeah he's a bit dull personality-wise but I think he's pretty underappreciated as a fighter. He's 19-2-1. His only losses were decisions at 135, and one was to an on top of his game Dominick Cruz. He's the first ever UFC Flyweight champion and has defended it three times. And he's getting better. His last two fights he's become more of a finisher, submitting John Moraga late and knocking out Joseph Benavidez early. Ridiculous speed, movement and technique. He fights intelligently. He transitions from striking to grappling seamlessly. He's a really tough nut to crack.

 

Bagautinov, we know less about. 13-2 but we can only really put any stock into his last three fights. Before that, we just don't know anything about his pre-UFC opposition. He's looked good so far on the whole. Stopping Marcos Vinicius and decisioning Tim Elliott and John Lineker. But the Elliott fight was close and Lineker hurt him a few times. I don't want to write Bagautinov's chances off, especially after what Dillashaw did against the odds last night, but I'd be surprised if he's the one to dethrone Mighty Mouse.

 

Co-main event;

 

Tyron Woodley vs Rory MacDonald. This is probably a title eliminator. That seemed like the plan originally anyway. But the thing is, with Rory 1-1 in his last two, and Woodley's win over Condit ending in an unsatisfactory manner, nothing is guaranteed. Obviously a win here for either guy strengthens their claim to the next title shot, but it's not like anyone at 170 is head and shoulders above everyone else as the clear next in line. And with Matt Brown and Robbie Lawler looking awesome recently, Lombard and Stun Gun set to collide in August, Nick Diaz throwing his mad two-penneth in the mix, and the timetable for Hendricks' return unclear - it's all very up in the air.

 

You just get the feeling the winner of this needs to look spectacular to really establish a clear argument for the shot.

 

Bader vs Feijao, I can't say I'm that arsed about. It might be good, I just struggle to muster up any excitement about anything involving Ryan 'Beige' Bader. Although to be fair, he's been better to watch lately. He really went for the kill in defeat against Glover Teixeira. And the beating he gave poor Anthony Perosh was nasty. Think I gave Bader two 10-8 rounds in that one, it was so one sided. Perosh looked like he'd been in a blender by the time the final buzzer...err buzzed. Feijao is usually fun to watch, maybe it'll be better than I'm expecting.

 

He's back...

 

After six years away, former UFC Heavyweight champion Andrei Arlovski returns. He's had a rocky road since leaving the UFC in 2008. He's gone 8-5-1 since then. With highs like destroying Ben Rothwell and handing Roy Nelson his only KO loss to date. And lows like the four fight losing streak against Fedor, Rogers, Bigfoot and Kharitonov. He's been everywhere from the corrupt EliteXC to Affliction to Strikeforce to OneFC to WSOF. Even got to smack Tim Sylvia a few more times. A really up and down run of fights. And since that four fight losing streak, his only wins have come against journeymen and nobodies. Although his chin did hold up for three rounds against Anthony Johnson not too long ago.

 

I always had a feeling he'd be back at some point. He was never sacked either, Arlovski chose to leave the UFC after beating Jake O'Brien at UFC 82. Dana always liked him. He's one of the few fighters Dana never really had a pop at, even when he was fighting for rival promotions. Arlovski and Robbie Lawler were two guys Dana never talked bad about.

 

Dana in December 2008;

"In nine years, there's only one fighter that I've lost that I didn't want to lose. That was Arlovski, and it still bothers me.

 

I jumped on a plane and flew to Chicago with Lorenzo and kissed his butt to try to make him not leave. He wanted to box on HBO. He had a lot of different things that he wanted to do that I couldn't let him do."

 

Arlovski on his UFC return;

"I had some problems a couple of years ago. It wasn't really a good time for me. I had a few losses. It wasn't really smart for me to fight back like a couple of years ago, but I also want to say thank you to all promotions, companies that gave me an opportunity in my career. Right now, I'm just very happy and ready to go. I'm ready to reach all of my goals.

 

Just for this I need to train even harder, fight harder, for those people that support me with all my weaknesses, my losses, and all the time were behind me. That means a lot to me. I would say I'm a happy fighter because I have such a nice people behind me.

 

After I lost to Kharitonov, some of my trainers said, 'You should retire. Arlovski's done.' The most embarrassing thing for me was that people that I trusted, they didn't tell me right to my face. They made some gossip behind my back. And I called Greg Jackson, I said, 'Listen, coach, some people said I should retire, that I'm done. What do you think? You think I should retire?' I'm just really happy at that time Greg Jackson gave me his hand and just support me at that time.

 

I don't need to prove anybody. I don't need to show anything. Just all I want to do is really good. Of course, I want to be the champion again. Just I'm going to perform for myself, for my family, for my fans."

 

He's fighting an utter twat named Brendan Schaub. This might be the clearest divide of likeable bloke vs annoying shithead since Big Nog fought Frank Mir. I hope Arlovski flattens him.

 

Schaub will probably win though. They're both heavy handed and both have weak chins. Schaub has the wrestling background though and I think that might make the difference. He's got no qualms about making a fight boring as fuck either to ensure the win, as we've seen in his Lavar Johnson and Metamoris stinkers. Then again, Arlovski has a decent sprawl. Hopefully he can keep it standing long enough to plant a KO punch on Schaub's shit chin before he gets hit on his.

 

OSP vs Jimmo will probably be a decent main card opener. Prelims are pretty fucking weak though. I like Sarafian, I expect Jabouin vs Easton will be good. Apart from that, nothing jumps out.

 

This show just kind of has the feel of passing time until the real business picks up with UFC 175. Could be decent though.

[JNLister]

FWIW, Meltzer's reporting of Dana at the press conference heavily implied Lawler's getting the next shot unless either Woodley or MacDonald get a spectacular win.

[wandshogun09]

Yeah, I just watched the post-UFC 173 scrum and it sounded like Dana wants Hendricks vs Lawler 2 next.

 

Dana on Lawler;

"How could you deny him the fight? The fight with (Johnny) Hendricks [at UFC 171] was awesome. With his performance before the Hendricks fight, there's no doubt he's the No. 1 guy in the world."

 

This might sound weird considering how great Hendricks vs Lawler was, and how great the rematch would likely be - but I'm not sure I like these constant quick rematches. It's alright now and then but it seems like now after every title match Dana wants to set up the rematch straight away. Fuck, he's even been on about doing Dillashaw vs Barao 2. Now I know Barao was on a huge unbeaten streak and stuff but an immediate rematch? After getting dominated for four and a half rounds then put away in the fifth? Surely these instant rematches should be reserved for controversial decisions or whatever.

 

In certain circumstances a quick turnaround rematch makes sense. Weidman vs Silva for example, with the fuss made over how the KO came about. And Jones vs Gustafsson 2, of course. But does it have to be done for almost every title fight now, even if it's not warranted and/or there's other contenders waiting their turn?

 

Hendricks vs Lawler was close but it wasn't controversial. And as tremendous as Lawler looked against Ellenberger, it's not like there aren't any other challengers at 170. You've got the Rory/Woodley winner, Lombard/Stun Gun winner and Matt Brown. Rushing these rematches, I mean, if Hendricks then goes 2-0 over Lawler in one calendar year where does that leave Lawler? And if Lawler wins and it's 1-1, do they then go right into the rubber match? That would mean Hendricks fighting the same guy three times in a row. Rivalries and trilogies and stuff are great and everything, but Jesus, surely it's better to give the rivalry time to breathe and develop than just keep throwing the same guys out there in quick succession. You're not even giving them proper time to change things up between fights then. Look at the Melendez vs Thomson trilogy. That was spaced out. The shortest time between fights was well over a year. And there was a better story to the series as a result because you could see how they'd both developed and changed with each fight. You don't get that with say, Cain vs JDS because the fights were all crammed into a two year span. Still really good fights but they could've been even better if they were more spaced out, I think.

 

I'd rather see Hendricks vs someone else next. Say whoever wins more impressively out of the Rory-Woodley and Lombard-Kim fights. Then do Lawler vs Brown. That way if Brown wins he gets his top 5 win which is all that's missing from his current streak, then he's the nailed on #1 contender. If Lawler wins then he ended Brown's streak and gets the title shot coming off two big wins. Plus, it doesn't hurt that Lawler vs Brown would be brilliant either.

[Carbomb]

Yeah, it's basic booking 101 (yes, I know it's a wrestling analogy, but it works in this case).

 

Take Barao, for instance. Haven't seen the fight yet, but everyone said Dillashaw bossed him. If that's the case, they shouldn't be having a re-match while people's image of Barao being outclassed is still fresh in the mind. He needs a fight or two to show he's back on the trail, to impress and to raise doubts in the mind that a re-match would go exactly the same way again.

[lambyUK]

Whilst you're right in principal wand regarding quick rematches, I think the ufc have been spot on with everyone of them. I certainly don't think its the norm.

 

For me, Lawler deserves that rematch ahead of woodley and Macdonald based on current form. Additionally he lost that rematch by a midgys dick.

 

If there were other outstanding candidates it would be a different matter. However there's not. Woodley is 3/2 in his last 5 and Macdonald has looked poor in his recent outings.

 

I think quick rematches are fine when the circumstances are right.

[David]

Take Barao, for instance. Haven't seen the fight yet, but everyone said Dillashaw bossed him. If that's the case, they shouldn't be having a re-match while people's image of Barao being outclassed is still fresh in the mind. He needs a fight or two to show he's back on the trail, to impress and to raise doubts in the mind that a re-match would go exactly the same way again.

He shouldn't be getting a rematch anyway, as the fight wasn't even remotely close. He got battered.

[wandshogun09]

I think that's his point though, Dave. That despite Dillashaw's win over Barao being about as clear cut and dominant as could be, Dana is talking about Barao possibly getting an immediate rematch. Which I find a bit ridiculous.

 

That was my main reason for bringing the rematch thing up. The other rematches they've done and are planning, you can see why they happened mostly. Jones vs Gustafsson was razor close, Weidman vs Silva was highly debated, even Rousey vs Tate 2 only came about because Zingano got injured.

 

But still, it does seem like now, after almost every title fight we're seeing rematches very quickly. And Dillashaw vs Barao 2 would be taking this rematch thing several steps too far for the reasons we've both already mentioned. Lawler getting another shot wouldn't be undeserved and I see lamby's point, but still, it's almost getting to be groundhog day as far as the title picture goes, in almost every division these days.

 

I don't have a big problem with Hendricks vs Lawler 2, just my personal preference would be to see Hendricks defend it against someone else first and let Lawler get another fight in. There's no need to rush into every rematch within a few months. It's not like Weidman vs Silva where Anderson was hinting at retirement and time was of the essence. There should be plenty of time for Hendricks vs Lawler 2 to happen.

 

Ah fuck it, I'm saying all this but if Hendricks vs Lawler 2 gets booked I'll still be excited. Barao really should have to win a couple before another fight with Dillashaw though, I think. And it'd probably be better for Barao as well. Let him rebuild himself and his confidence against someone lower ranked before chucking him back in. I wonder if Anderson would've done any better against Weidman the second time had he taken another fight before the rematch. He was coming off the first KO loss of his career (I still think the effect that had on his confidence for the rematch might be understated) and seemed rattled coming into the cage at 168. Probably wouldn't have made much difference and I get why they capitalised on the rematch to strike while the iron was hot, but if he'd wasted someone like Bisping or Cung Le before getting back in with Weidman, maybe he'd have been more confident and had a bit more success. We'll never know. Probably nothing to any of that anyway.

[Carbomb]

Yeah, that was my point - wand summed it up a lot better.

 

EDIT: Although, looking back, I think there's also the added dimension of his winning streak - it would probably give UFC a reason to be a bit more generous in their appraisal of whether he deserves a re-match or not. Not that they should give him one necessarily, but that they shouldn't stand in the way of him trying to earn himself back into contention.

[lambyUK]

As Carbomb says, its Barao's winning streak that's caused the rematch talk here. Plus the fact that he wretched his previous opponents as well. Would I personally re book it? Probably not. However, the division has no obvious candidates. Not even Assuncao for me who really needs another win.

 

If you look at Baraos streak, you could really have called the mayweather of the bantamweight division (albeit the drawing power).

 

Now imagine if say Amir Khan comes out and destroys Mayweather in his next fight, do you think a rematch would be booked? I would say yes it would for what Mayweather has achieved. Could it be argued that Barao's streak warrants the same request?

 

 

To note, this really has gone off the ufc 174 discussion.

[wandshogun09]

If you look at Baraos streak, you could really have called the mayweather of the bantamweight division (albeit the drawing power).

 

Now imagine if say Amir Khan comes out and destroys Mayweather in his next fight, do you think a rematch would be booked? I would say yes it would for what Mayweather has achieved. Could it be argued that Barao's streak warrants the same request?

 

You know, when you put it like this I can't really disagree. Andre Pederneiras is already calling for a rematch in October in Brazil. I don't know though, it just feels a bit wrong to me when a guy totally dominates his opponent, and finishes him, and the guy gets a rematch straight away. And although I get the Barao/Mayweather comparison with the long unbeaten streak etc, Barao has only been champion since 2012. Well he's only been the proper undisputed champ since February this year. It's not like Anderson being upset after a 7 year reign of terror. Barao's streak prior to coming to WEC was all against unknowns. Mayweather has been perfect for 18 years and only ever even been close to losing two or three times.

 

I get your point and it's a good one. And 135 isn't exactly heaving with challengers right now. But like 170, I think I'd rather see Dillashaw avenge the dodgy decision loss to Assuncao next. And let Barao do a Robbie Lawler and batter a couple of other guys. Cain had to beat Bigfoot to get a rematch with JDS the second time. JDS had to beat Hunt to get the rubber match. I just think really, after such a one way traffic fight, it'd do Barao good to rebuild himself a bit.

 

To note, this really has gone off the ufc 174 discussion.

 

Yeah, fuck it. I've picked Johnson by decision, Woodley by KO and Schaub by KO in the poll.

 

Arlovski vs Schaub then. The poll is 5-4 to Schaub at the minute. Lets talk about how much we want Schaub to get battered. Is there a Schaub fan on here?

[JNLister]

Update: Lawler's fighting Matt Brown on Fox in July, mainly because the deadline for sending out the advertising was today and they had buggerall else for that show.

[lambyUK]

Update: Lawler's fighting Matt Brown on Fox in July, mainly because the deadline for sending out the advertising was today and they had buggerall else for that show.

 

Incredible fight but simultaneously I'm a little gutted as I want both to fight for the title. Its a bit like Cormier and Gustaffson.

[wandshogun09]

If Diaz isn't coming back, let's have Robbie Lawler vs Matt Brown!

 

I'd rather see Hendricks vs someone else next. Say whoever wins more impressively out of the Rory-Woodley and Lombard-Kim fights. Then do Lawler vs Brown. That way if Brown wins he gets his top 5 win which is all that's missing from his current streak, then he's the nailed on #1 contender. If Lawler wins then he ended Brown's streak and gets the title shot coming off two big wins. Plus, it doesn't hurt that Lawler vs Brown would be brilliant either.

 

Update: Lawler's fighting Matt Brown on Fox in July, mainly because the deadline for sending out the advertising was today and they had buggerall else for that show.

 

 

This is going to be fucking awesome! As far as I know, the timetable for Hendricks to return isn't clear so this could work out well as a #1 contenders fight.

 

Bit worried about Lawler overtraining though. I mean fuck, he fought a five round war with Hendricks in March, then went right into camp for Ellenberger, now he's pretty much going to have to get straight back in the gym for Matt Brown. The fucker must've been in camp pretty much non-stop since about January! Dana was just telling the media the other day that Lawler was saying he's barely seen his wife and kids in something mad like 14 weeks. Hope they're sorting him out with a sweet bonus for this. He's stepped up a few times for them now.

[Carbomb]

I think there must also be an element of the old clock ticking, surely? He's no spring chicken, and he probably wants to get back into contention as quickly as he can while his body's still able to function at that level. Probably wants some decent matches, memories and paydays so he can retire with no professional, emotional or financial regrets.

[Egg Shen]

on the subject of 135, id do Dillashaw/Assuncao (makes sense, Assuncao beat Dillashaw 2 fights ago) and have Barao fight a number 1 contender type fight...fuck just give him a tune up if they wanna do Dillashaw/Barao 2 that bad. This fight was too one sided to grant Barao an instant rematch, 35 fight win streak or not.

 

Have to remember Dillashaw only had this shot cause Asscuncao was hurt.