Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 12, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted January 12, 2014 This all happened during my last year as a wrestling fan, until I got back into it in 1999, so I was never paying a huge amount of attention. But I seem to remember Jim Ross acting quite heelish on commentary when talking about these two- or was I imagining that? If true, what was that all about?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWM Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Something I always found off about these two that showed how arse about tit things were with Vince at the time - him and the company were bones of their arse fucking skint, and yet when these two teamed, they got the deluxe Razor/Diesel pyro combo that I don't even think Hall and Nash even got to perform in the roles. Titan Tower had the fucking water coolers taken out, but let's spend a fortune legitmising the supposedly intentionally dodgy knockoffs by giving them massive elaborate pyro. Shawn had only just got his boof boof boof boof ones, Sid was at least wearing the belt when he got the SID sparklers, and Bret got the poxy ceiling fireworks I always hated. Couldn't believe they were chucking the big budget pyro at these two clowns. Â EDIT: BUT, I still love the JR reveal promo to this day. There's your fucking prototype pipe-bomb. I know it all went nowhere, but his delivery was just about flawless and his pain-in-Vince's-arse heel role was magnificent fun on telly and at Buried Alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted January 12, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted January 12, 2014 Come to think of it, I can't remember how either of Jim Ross' 'heel' spells ended. There was this one with the fake Razor and Diesel, then in 99 he was slapping Bart Gunn, hanging around with Dr Death, setting up his own mini commentary table etc. On both occasions he seemed to stop being heelish after a bit with no rhyme or reason. To me at least. Were either of these short heel JR angles actually concluded or did he just stop being evil both times with no explanation? In 99 it just seemed like he was being a cunt for weeks, then just turned up to commentate the Rock vs Austin main event at WrestleMania XV, and it was never brought up again. Â I quite enjoyed heel JR, actually for the two brief spells. They missed a trick though. When he was knocking around with Razor/Diesel and Dr Death, they could've had him coming down the aisle dragging a bag of puppies in one hand and a housebrick in the other. He'd have been a natural cunt manager. Â On topic - did I dream this or did Steve Corino once claim the WWF were considering bringing him in as a fake 123 Kid, to join the bargain bucket Razor and Diesel? Probably a load of shite but I could swear I've heard that before somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cutting Edge Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Yeah Corino mentioned it in one of his shoots and I think on Cabanas podcast too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted January 12, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted January 12, 2014 EDIT: BUT, I still love the JR reveal promo to this day. There's your fucking prototype pipe-bomb. I know it all went nowhere, but his delivery was just about flawless and his pain-in-Vince's-arse heel role was magnificent fun on telly and at Buried Alive. Â Was that the one where his mic wouldn't work? Â I remember finding it all very confusing because I was watching WCW at that time and had no idea what was going on. They then dumped JR's heel turn quick sharp and kept presenting them both as the real thing until they disappeared. It was all very strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickin it wit the kliq Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 That JR "shoot" promo was brilliant, was it ever explained why it went nowhere, was it because they lost the trademark lawsuit or have I totally imagined that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Whos Next Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't remember much about his 96 heel turn, but his 98 one made little to no sense at the time. Â He was bitching about the fact that he had been fired by Vince after his numerous health issues - surely a babyface? Vince was a heel at the time, again why would badmouthing Vince at that point make Vince a heel? Â Finally, late nintees Cole wasn't a great commentator, kicking him in the nads was bound to get him JR a cheer. Â A heel lead commentator is a stupid idea anyway. He's supposed to tell the story of the match from the perspective of the viewer, and the viewer is supposed to sympathise with the babyface. Putting over heels and burying babyfaces just makes your promotion look inept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 That JR "shoot" promo was brilliant, was it ever explained why it went nowhere, was it because they lost the trademark lawsuit or have I totally imagined that? It went nowhere because JR wasn't comfortable doing it, and there wasn't really anywhere for it to go. Razor and Diesel stuck around for ages after the JR thing, and were dropped because they were shit knock-offs that nobody bought into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted January 13, 2014 Paid Members Share Posted January 13, 2014 I have to say I always found JR's heel turns to be shit and they never even slightly interested me, although him setting up his own commentary desk in front of the normal Raw one was pretty funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWM Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 As it happens I'm currently watching Bret vs 'Razor' from a December 1996 Raw, and it's interesting (to me) to think what Bret might be wondering in kayfabe as he stands across the ring from the imposter. "Right, I've got to watch for the Razors Edge, the sack of shit slam, the leg grab on the abdominal stretch and...wait a minute, he's not the real one, he'll be shite at those, I've not got owt to worry about here. And another thing, why are we calling him Razor, Razor left months ago, I know Razor. This is weird." Â It's such an odd angle the second they just stop acknowledging that they're fakes. It just doesn't fit right in the framework of pro-wrestling does it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted January 13, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 13, 2014 yeh it's mental, especially when you consider the originals were such big players in the organisation...im gonna track down this JR heel turn as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 It's such an odd angle the second they just stop acknowledging that they're fakes. It just doesn't fit right in the framework of pro-wrestling does it?? Did they stop acknowledging that they were fakes? I remember the fakeness being a huge part of the characters, but I've never watched any of it since then and I have no idea whether that was just my own spin on it. Did the commentators play it completely straight? Would they call them former Intercontinental and World champions and the like? Â It was such an odd time. Does anyone have the Raw magazine where Vince does that interview about Nash leaving? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEWM Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 They don't acknowledge the title runs or any character history (which is also a touch odd in itself for viewer and commentator if you think about it), just that here's some tough bloke called Razor or a big bloke called Diesel - The End. Like, Bret got plaudits for overcoming the tough challenge of Razor Ramon, but you can't attach any weight to it as a fan because you KNOW it's not Razor Ramon, and you know Bret knows, and the fans know, and the announcers know at the desk. It completely fucks with the ecosystem in how it makes you think. The characters are walking breathing nothings. They're not fakes, but all of us know they're not real. And we know they know it too, it's not like they've been hypnotised into believing they're these people now. It's actually even hard to articulate it. Say you had them say, 'yeah, we're Razor and Diesel but Bret Hart and Savio Vega, if you two don't keep out our way we'll fucking knife you because this Razor and Diesel are loads harder than the two you used to know' it would be a generic shitty heel, but at least it would be that. These don't even get that. Â FWIW, if this had been a one night angle to get JR across as an embittered star maker manager in transitional 1996 WWF, I still maintain it would have been fantastic. On the desk on reveal night, president Gorilla is all 'you're trying to embarrass the WWF Jim', and Ross is almost snarky with his 'And? What of it dickhead, I told you I had Razor and Diesel, I've made you look a right cunt here haven't I? Yous lot should respect me'. And that actually makes sense. But that was clearly never even remotely the motivation or planning for the characters, it was Vince being a wicked combination of small minded, uncreative and desperate. Â I've always found the whole storyline really fascinating because of all this though. It's way more intriguing garbage than your Man Mountain Rock, Duke Drosse type shit gimmicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted January 13, 2014 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 13, 2014 was the WCW dig at JR with Oklahoma anything to do with this? or did that come much later? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 The Oklahoma thing was years later, after Russo had gone to WCW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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