UFC 168: Weidman vs Silva 2

[lambyUK]

Guess here's no better place considering it's Miesha Tate related.

 

Her recent Fitness gurls cover shoot...

 

 

Yes please!

[wandshogun09]

Get in line lamby. You'll have to fight JDS to get to the front though.

 

Just in the interest of equality, Ronda's Maxim shoot wasn't too shabby either;

 

 

 

Anyway...

 

On the subject of Anderson's clowning last time - he clearly took the piss but I really think there's too much weight being put on that for the result last time. I get why but it can't be as simple as 'Anderson doesn't taunt this time = Weidman has no chance.' He's going to have to do more than simply not mouth off and wave his arms about. And the fact is he's always done that shit. The same things people were going mental over after the loss to Weidman were the same things people were in awe of against Forrest Griffin. He took the piss just as bad, if not worse, against Demian Maia. Weidman made him pay where others couldn't. And the thing people leave out when they're putting Weidman's win solely down to Anderson's dancing, is the first round. What about that round? Weidman dominated Anderson early on the ground and Anderson wasn't pissing about then.

 

Anderson could win this rematch. Absolutely. I'm not 100% sold that Weidman will hold up down the stretch and if he comes in overconfident now, that he can strike with Anderson, that could be his undoing. There's so many ways the fight can go. But to suggest that if Anderson doesn't dance this time he'll easily destroy Weidman, is a bit much IMO. Not fucking around will be a start, but he's still actually got to do something to Weidman. Something he didn't really do last time.

 

I'm of the same school of thought as King Mo on this.

 

"It's like this - I think he just got caught. That's the way he fights. People try to say he fought cocky but were they saying that seven fights ago? Nah, they say he's a genius seven fights ago. That's how he fights man, you live and die by that. You can ask Roy Jones, you can ask Naseem Hamed, you can ask all them boxers that had that style. You live by it you die by it, you know what I'm saying? He just got caught. He'll be back."

 

Mo knows. You go back over Anderson's fights and when he faces grapplers he always taunts and tries to frustrate them into a stand up fight. He did that to Maia and Leites (BJJ), Okami (wrestler) and Weidman (wrestler/BJJ). The only grappler he didn't taunt was Chael, and that's probably only because Chael was so non-stop coming at him, he never had chance. That's what he does, he fucks with people to get them to react and draw them into his fight. He's even done it against strikers like Griffin and Cote. For people to expect him to be able to change at 38 years old, and come in Cro Cop stoic, deadly serious and just walk through a big, younger guy with the skillset of a Chris Weidman, I don't see it. Like I said, he could still win. One slip up from Weidman and Anderson will be on him like a sniper. But I very much doubt it's going to be this easy walkover people seem to be expecting.

 

I think Weidman will start strong again and build up a points lead. Then I think he might fade later and that's where it gets really interesting. Anderson could capitalize or Weidman could grind it out. I've got a feeling Weidman is winning a close decision.

 

I'd love to see Anderson win the title back though. Not only would it be an incredible achievement to regain the title at 38, it would also open up the possibility of a rubber match down the line.

[ColinBollocks]

...Weidman dominated Anderson early on the ground and Anderson wasn't pissing about then.

This is why I can't make my mind up on who's going to win this. Apart from Silva doing the taunting, he was pretty ineffective - even the notorious taunting was ineffective, to the point of destruction. Weidman's game plan and execution was spot on. BUT it's Anderson Chuffing Silva, he's always some sneaky kick/punch away from victory.

 

I'd love it if this "I back!" hype ended with Silva coming out and battering the bloke. He'd look like the bloke with the biggest bollocks, once more.

[David]

I must be one of the few who thought that Anderson was clowning around much more than usual, and much earlier in the fight than usual.

 

He usually waits until he's demoralised his opponent before going into exhibition mode, which wasn't the case here.

 

As for Weidman, he's a decent enough fighter, but unlike Hendricks before he fought St-Pierre, I just don't see him as the guy to end the Anderson Silva awesomeness train.

 

Now, TRT'ed up Belfort in Brazil where he can get up to all kinds of pharmaceutical shenanigans? That's a possibility

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

 

If Dana really wanted to break UFC 100's record, this would be the official PPV poster

 

You go back over Anderson's fights and when he faces grapplers he always taunts and tries to frustrate them into a stand up fight. He did that to Maia and Leites (BJJ), Okami (wrestler) and Weidman (wrestler/BJJ). The only grappler he didn't taunt was Chael, and that's probably only because Chael was so non-stop coming at him, he never had chance. That's what he does, he fucks with people to get them to react and draw them into his fight. He's even done it against strikers like Griffin and Cote. For people to expect him to be able to change at 38 years old, and come in Cro Cop stoic, deadly serious and just walk through a big, younger guy with the skillset of a Chris Weidman, I don't see it. Like I said, he could still win. One slip up from Weidman and Anderson will be on him like a sniper. But I very much doubt it's going to be this easy walkover people seem to be expecting.

 

I'd love to see Anderson win the title back though. Not only would it be an incredible achievement to regain the title at 38, it would also open up the possibility of a rubber match down the line.

One thing about Anderson's run of dominance is that he didn't really face many wrestlers, or at least, when he did, they didn't use their wrestling much. You've got Hendo and Okami, with Hendo looking for bombs and Okami just stood there like a deer in the headlights waiting to get KOed. And obviously Chael Sonnen had a great deal of success using his elite wrestling game, winning a total of 6 rounds against The Spider. Weidman proved he could get Silva down in the first fight, and obviously has great BJJ, so it's hard seeing him getting caught like Sonnen. And he has the psychological advantage of scoring the KO in the stand up exchange, the first time Anderson's ever lost by KO. Far from an easy fight, Weidman's got weapons everywhere and knows he can get the job done.

 

It's funny to bring up Anderson's age now. He was wrecking everybody when he was 37.

[wandshogun09]

It's funny to bring up Anderson's age now. He was wrecking everybody when he was 37.

 

True, but that's kind of the point in a way. Everything has to come to an end. Historically fighters don't pull out ninja style KOs into their late 30s. Especially fighters who's style is so centered around speed and fast reflexes, which are usually the first things to go on a fighter. So in that sense, Anderson's already overachieved or kept going longer than all logic says he should be able to. He's a freak. But it has to end somewhere. He's not going to be recreating the Belfort toepoke KO in his 40s is he? Or the Matrix head movement KO of Forrest. He's way up already in the outstaying your welcome stakes as a fighter. So the odds aren't good on him coming back from this loss to be the man again at 38.

 

All that said, I'd fucking love it if he does. In some ways it would only add to his legacy. He's done the dominant champion thing. If he's able to reclaim the belt at 38 and string together more wins, that will really push him even further into legend status. Look at Muhammad Ali. His coming back at 32 to win the heavyweight title from an undefeated monster George Foreman, that was thought to be a ludicrous fantasy going in. He was a megastar going into that fight, he was a fucking icon after he won. Winning fights that logic says you should lose is what makes legends. And on paper, this is a fight that Anderson shouldn't be winning at 38 against a younger challenger who's knocked him out once and, in theory, has a style that should trouble him.

 

I can't wait. I'm getting myself all moist now and there's still over a month to go!

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Anderson doesn't seem to have lost a step really though, he got caught, but that was down to Weidman's use of the flicker jab to cause Anderson to move into position for that left hook. There's a world of difference between the way Weidman was striking and the way Forrest was lunging at him.

 

We're analysing the fight and looking at Weidman's style, but the casual MMA fan (and probably some experts) will expect Anderson to dominate. He just seems ageless. GSP has looked more vulnerable than him lately, and arguably so has Jones against Gusty. One punch was the difference for Anderson. With Weidman, I think we've found a guy who is skilled enough to push Anderson, like Edgar with Penn, Gusty with Jones and Hendricks with GSP. For me, the story is Anderson having a legitimate rival and possibly overcoming him. The age thing will be a factor for some, but not me. It'd be a cool thing for Zuffa to promote maybe, but Silva won't say post-fight, "Not bad for an old man."

 

Regardless, there's so many different elements to consider, probably the most intriguing fight of the year. The next month will be slow as shit

[wandshogun09]

Anderson doesn't seem to have lost a step really though, he got caught, but that was down to Weidman's use of the flicker jab to cause Anderson to move into position for that left hook. There's a world of difference between the way Weidman was striking and the way Forrest was lunging at him.

 

You don't have to convince me of that. If you go back through the post-fight part of the UFC 162 thread, you'll see I was one of the minority of posters who was saying Weidman did a great job. I wasn't comparing Forrest to Weidman. The opposite in fact. I was using the example to show that where the likes of Forrest, Bonnar and Maia etc could do nothing about Anderson's clowning of them, Weidman had the tools in his toolbox to make Anderson pay.

 

It wasn't a lucky punch as some people have called it. If you watch the fight back, as you say, Weidman set that left hook up well.

 

He just seems ageless.

 

The age thing will be a factor for some, but not me.

 

He does seem ageless, even facially when you look at him, he really hasn't aged much at all in the last 10 years. But the key word there is seems. He seems ageless but that's not actually a real thing, is it? No fucker is truly ageless. We can call him a ninja, a Matrix character, an alien, a fucking wizard, whatever. But he's a man like anyone else. He's a freakish man who's had a long and incredible career, but a man all the same. He can be submitted, and he has an off switch on his chin just like anyone else. And Weidman found it last time.

 

The age thing might not be a factor for you or me, but it doesn't need to be. It's going to catch him one day regardless of what we think. Age beats everyone. Even Anderson Silva. It might not yet, he could go on another 5 year run for all I know. But it can't go on forever. At some point Anderson's time at the top will be over. Now is as likely a time as any.

 

I hope it's not. Like you say, it's not like he's showing signs of declining. But even when you say it was just one punch that did it, was it really? Weidman won the first round clearly as well. I'm still failing to see what Anderson actually did to Weidman the first time outside of a few body kicks, a couple of stuffed takedown attempts later on, and a load of arsing about and shouting. It wasn't a close fight last time. The tide looked like it might be starting to turn towards the end but then Weidman knocked him out. That's why the rematch is so anticipated. Can Weidman do it again? Can Anderson deal with Weidman's ground game? Will Weidman's cardio hold up if it goes longer? Does Weidman have Anderson's number? We'll get at least some of these answered.

[jimufctna24]

Judging from the first fight. If it stays standing I like Anderson by TKO, if Weidman can get it to the floor, I like Weidman by UD, sub or possibly GnP stoppage.

 

Anderson is the better striker, Weidman is a very good and for MMA's standards a advanced boxer, but he lacks the refinement to outscore Anderson if he does not lark about, Anderson is too loose and diverse to get tagged consistently by a decent Amercian style boxer, Franklin and Sonnen (2nd fight) learned that.

 

Weidman may need to score takedowns consistently, the longer the fight stays standing the longer Anderson can draw a advantage, we saw last weekend the more open and loose the fight was between GSP and Hendricks the more the slicker and skilled striker scored (watch GSP jabs in the 3rd when he got room and time to operate) Anderson needs to stay active, and keep Weidman at distance for reasonable amounts of time.

 

I want Anderson to win, but I think Weidman could drag him to the ground and do damage, the first fight Weidman was landing well in their brief ground exchange, it was scary how stronger Weidman was.

 

Still not making my final pick until week of the fight.

 

Edit: Weidman's cardio is another factor to be decided, I agree.

[David]

I must be one of the few who actually thinks that if Anderson comes into this fight with a point to prove and takes shit seriously it won't matter what Weidman does. I don't think he's on the same level as Anderson. At all.

[jimufctna24]

I must be one of the few who actually thinks that if Anderson comes into this fight with a point to prove and takes shit seriously it won't matter what Weidman does. I don't think he's on the same level as Anderson. At all.

Does that brief struggle on the ground where Weidman was mauling Anderson not make you think otherwise David? I agree in terms of striking, Anderson should be a league above if he does not piss about, but as a all round fighters, he does have weapons to make it interesting.

[David]

I must be one of the few who actually thinks that if Anderson comes into this fight with a point to prove and takes shit seriously it won't matter what Weidman does. I don't think he's on the same level as Anderson. At all.

Does that brief struggle on the ground where Weidman was mauling Anderson not make you think otherwise David? I agree in terms of striking, Anderson should be a league above if he does not piss about, but as a all round fighters, he does have weapons to make it interesting.

Nope. Chael did the same thing to him and look how that finished. I think that Anderson never really goes above 70% when he's on the ground for some reason. He's a weird dude. It's almost as if he knows that in a straight up contest he pisses all over anyone he fights, so he does things to try and make it challenging for himself or something.

 

If he comes in serious and simply looking to get this kid out of the way and get his belt back I don't see it going past two frames. He's going to fuck him up.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Normally, I'd say you're looking at things too simplistically, David, but this is Anderson Silva we're talking about. That kind of comment is completely disrespectful to the clear skill Weidman has, but there's definitely a chance of that happening. I don't think it will, as Weidman has possibly more to prove in this fight than Anderson, but if he gets finished in the first frame, it wouldn't overly shock me.

[jimufctna24]

Nope. Chael did the same thing to him and look how that finished. I think that Anderson never really goes above 70% when he's on the ground for some reason. He's a weird dude. It's almost as if he knows that in a straight up contest he pisses all over anyone he fights, so he does things to try and make it challenging for himself or something.

 

If he comes in serious and simply looking to get this kid out of the way and get his belt back I don't see it going past two frames. He's going to fuck him up.

They are not playing snooker man!

 

Difference is that Weidman is more powerful and dangerous on the ground than Chael. I see what you mean, but I am not as confident in Anderson as you are.

[David]

Nope. Chael did the same thing to him and look how that finished. I think that Anderson never really goes above 70% when he's on the ground for some reason. He's a weird dude. It's almost as if he knows that in a straight up contest he pisses all over anyone he fights, so he does things to try and make it challenging for himself or something.

 

If he comes in serious and simply looking to get this kid out of the way and get his belt back I don't see it going past two frames. He's going to fuck him up.

They are not playing snooker man!

 

Difference is that Weidman is more powerful and dangerous on the ground than Chael. I see what you mean, but I am not as confident in Anderson as you are.

I'm not being disrespectful towards Weidman here, as he's a good fighter, but I simply don't think there's a middleweight who can compete with Anderson when he's got his game head on.

 

The only person who defeats Anderson is himself in my opinion.