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UFC 164: 'Henderson vs Pettis II'


wandshogun09

Who wins and how?  

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I wasn't meaning you in particular, I'm just a bit amused by the way people are discussing who they want Barnett to fight after Mir (not just on this forum either) as if he's a dead cert to win.

 

Barnett is 35 years old, and hasn't really been fighting the top guys in recent years. I'd say that aside from Cormier, Mir is probably the biggest test he's faced in almost seven years, when he dropped a decision to big Nog.

Styles make fights and all that, but you have to remember the Nog that Barnett went life and death with in the grappling stakes, was in another league to the Nog that Mir beat twice.

 

If it turns into a striking match-up, I actually slightly favor Mir. Mir is not going to be mistaken for a elite level striker anytime soon, but Barnett is very limited and Mir might be able to out-score him enough.

 

I think it is 50/50, could swing either way. I kinda hope Barnett wins as there is more for him to do at Heavyweight than Mir.

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I don't think it will be easy win, in fact I'm not even saying I think Barnett will win, I just want Barnett to beat him up a lot. That's not the same thing as saying it will be an easy fight etc.

I wasn't meaning you in particular, I'm just a bit amused by the way people are discussing who they want Barnett to fight after Mir (not just on this forum either) as if he's a dead cert to win.

 

When I was mentioning the possible fights for Barnett in the UFC, I wasn't meaning that in a 'when Barnett beats Mir here's who I'd like to see him fight next' way. Just that there's plenty of options for fresh fights with him, win or lose against Mir.

 

I'll give Mir credit where it's due. He's a good fighter, I can't stand him but he's no cakewalk for Barnett. His striking isn't elite but it's pretty good and he can generate some power. His BJJ obviously speaks for itself. His wrestling at times has looked alright, like the Nelson fight, but it's probably his weakest area. And his cardio has been shite for years.

 

To be fair though, despite losing handily, I did think he showed improvement in the Cormier fight. As odd as that sounds considering there was no question Cormier won every round. Mir didn't gas despite it going three rounds at a decent pace. Also, he got tagged with some heavy shots, and we know Cormier can hit, and he didn't curl up in a ball and wait for the ref to save him like he did so many times earlier in his career.

 

I assume it was the change of camp to Greg Jackson's that helped. He probably needed a change for years. He'd stayed in Vegas his whole career, maybe he'd stalled his progress. He was the main man in his camps as well so maybe he was surrounded by yes men. At Jackson's he's not the star, he's just another team member. He's sparring with Jon Jones and Travis Browne and he's got Mike Winklejohn and Greg Jackson who can maybe bring something different out of him in training.

 

I'm not for one second saying Mir will go on a run to the title. I think it's probably too late for that and the likes of Cain Velasquez and Junior Dos Santos are always going to be blocking that. But if you're a Frank Mir fan (and I'm fucking not), there's at least some hope for improvement there.

 

A few years ago if someone said to me 'Mir would submit Josh Barnett', I'd have laughed. I know Mir's BJJ is lethal but I wouldn't have picked him to catch a seasoned submission grappler like Barnett. After Mir snapped Nogueira's arm though, I have to accept he can do that to anyone in MMA given the chance. I don't think it's likely he taps Barnett, but I wouldn't be overly shocked.

 

I don't know with this. Mir's inconsistency and Barnett fighting a lot of scrubs in recent years makes it hard to predict what kind of fight this will be, or what form they'll show up in. I'm leaning towards Barnett by decision or a late TKO I think. Just a gut feeling.

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It seems that Barnett has been at the same place forever, and he has not really changed as a fighter over the years. Not that he has needed to at times.

I have a feeling all of that may be about to change. You can half-arse it when you're fighting guys like Bret Rogers and mighty Mo, but you'll get found out quickly when you face the top guys in the division.

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Josh Barnett doesn't recognize Frank Mir as a former UFC champion;

 

"I think we've always kind of been in different places for both of our careers, really. Even when he was fighting for titles, no one ever took my belt from me, so I don't what belt they were putting around (his waist), but that wasn't the UFC heavyweight title as far as I was concerned. I was in Pride fighting the universally recognized top dudes in the world at the time. I come back to the UFC, and the UFC is now the premiere place to be for mixed martial arts in the world, but at this point, Frank's best days have already occurred."

 

Mir on trying to submit the 'Warmaster';

 

"I'm probably gonna have to link four, five or six attempts together. Obviously, I don't see Josh just falling victim to the first submission I jump on."

 

I'm really looking forward to this one. The Countdown bit on these two should be top notch as well. Countdown airs in the US tomorrow actually, so should be about online by Tuesday.

 

While I'm here, awesome Pettis highlight;

 

Really well put together.

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The Countdown for this is excellent. One of the best in a while I thought.

 

The Henderson-Pettis bit was really good. As expected it goes into the first fight, I didn't realise how swollen Bendo's face was from the Showtime kick. It also goes into Pettis losing his Dad at a young age and the relationship with Duke Roufus which has become kind of a father/son thing. It's good stuff.

 

I'm going to have to rewatch their first fight sometime this week. Roufus was talking about how Bendo really struggled to take Pettis down last time and in the clips it really showed how underrated Pettis' defensive wrestling is. I think the Guida fight has kind of got people underestimating him in that area a bit.

 

Also, it's interesting that the first fight was in Benson's hometown, and Pettis won. This time they're in Pettis' backyard, I hope the anti-hometown advantage doesn't continue here. As much as I'd love to see this go to a rubber match, I really hope Pettis finally gets the gold on Saturday.

 

The Barnett-Mir part was the highlight of the Countdown as expected. Barnett stole the show for me.

 

On Mir calling him a dick;

"Frank doesn't really know me. So I don't really give a shit what he has to say about me. Ever. And that really, pretty much goes for everyone in the world. If giving a shit was something that was important, I think I missed that lesson. If he thinks I'm a dick now though, wait until we get in the ring. He's really gonna think I'm a dick."

 

On grappling with Mir;

"I'm sure it would be the worst mistake of my entire life. I can think of a lot of drunken nights that have been bigger mistakes than grappling Frank Mir."

 

Becoming UFC champion again;

"I could take my belt back. I know that. But I don't think so much about the bobbles and the trophies and trinkets, when it comes to fighting. Beating everybody, all the time, everywhere...is my motivation for fighting. My focus is on that. Crushing all my enemies. And then whatever riches are left behind, I take them all. And I get to write the history."

 

I love Josh Barnett. I really hope he wrecks Mir. I also hope his piss remains clean from here on in.

 

Definitely give this Countdown a watch.

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I wonder if he's still learning the intricacies of details of manoeuvres that we don't even know the names of.

 

OK so this is three days away. Who's everyone picking in the top three fights?

 

Bendo vs Pettis 2, I'm torn on. Like I said before I think they both really stepped up after their first fight. And the first fight was ridiculously close. The 'Showtime kick' is all people remember but they were neck and neck before that. Bendo had a rear naked choke locked in at one point which looked close to ending the fight. I think a lot of people (not so much here) are looking at the way the fight ended last time and can't see past Pettis' flashiness and think it's going to be easy. Bendo has got winning decisions down to a science, even decisions he shouldn't win he's getting his hand raised. I'm not sure. I've gone back and forth but fuck it, I'll go Pettis on points again. The momentum seems to be with him, it's in his hometown, he may have the mental edge from the first fight and that kick. Wouldn't be surprised if we get another controversial decision either though.

 

Barnett vs Mir is another fairly tough call. But despite him looking slightly improved on the cardio and weathering shots front against Cormier, I find it hard to have much confidence picking Mir. You never know, he's always got that x-factor of a submission threat. That ace is always up his sleeve, but that threat is usually early on with Mir, rarely does he ever submit someone after round one. And is he likely to catch Barnett in round one? I don't think so. Possible but not likely. I fancy Barnett to hold up better down the stretch and get the TKO in round two or three.

 

Guida vs Mendes should be good, but I just think Mendes does everything that bit better than Clay. He's faster, more powerful, I'd say he's a better wrestler and he's good with chokes, which Clay has fallen to a few times in his career. I think Guida will be forced to go balls out in this fight, like he did vs Sanchez, Bendo etc. Fights he couldn't just do the bare minimum in to grind out a decision. I like Mendes in this fight, probably via patented Team Alpha Male guillotine choke in round two.

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I am going to pick Mir I think, which I could regret.

 

Barnett has not changed things up enough for my liking, whilst Mir should come out with a decent gameplan under Jackson. Barnett is not going to be able to contain Mir as much as Cormier did with his wrestling chops. of course that works both ways as Mir is no master octagon general either. In a open fight which could end up a striking battle, I like Mir to win as he has more variety than the limited striking of Barnett.

 

Mir on points for me.

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I can't see Mir winning a decision. If he's going to win this fight I think he'll have to stop Barnett, which is no easy task. You have to go way back to the Pride 2006 GP to see Barnett stopped, and that was against a prime Cro Cop and even then it was a dodgy eye poke finish.

 

I just think Mir is too much of a finisher. That's probably why he often gasses. He goes all out for the finish and if it doesn't work he's left spent. Maybe Jackson and Winkeljohn have been able to tweak his training correctly though, to fit better into a longer fight. If he can find the balance between going for finshes when they're there, but not spaffing his load in three minutes, then it'll be a start. I just think Barnett is too tough for Mir. Physically and mentally, I'd give Barnett the toughness edge all day.

 

So do we reckon the winner of this gets Werdum? Would make sense I reckon, and would be another grappling heavyweights dream match.

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Just watched the Bendo and Pettis interviews with Ariel Helwani. Both of them are hinting at calling for 'superfights' after the fight tomorrow night. Both seem to want the Aldo fight next. Pettis said there are 145ers and 155ers he wants to call out. And he is pissed off that Andre Pederneiras claimed he faked the knee injury to escape the wrath of Aldo. Last time someone claimed Pettis was ducking them was Cerrone. Going off that, I'd say it's not a wise move to piss Pettis off.

 

I liked Pettis' attitude in the interview. He was saying he's looking at round one of this fight as round six of their first fight, and that there will be no feeling out process.

 

One thing I think people often overlook with Pettis, I overlooked it as well, is that he trains day in-day out with Ben Askren. Who knows how much he's improved in the two years since Guida outwrestled him. No-one's really put it to the test since. Lauzon and Cerrone aren't wrestlers, and those fights ended quick.

 

Pettis' unique striking style coupled with Askren's unique grappling style is quite a combination. Askren might be Pettis' secret weapon. Everyone talks about the striking but it's surely the confidence in his takedown defence that gives him the freedom to really let loose with his strikes. And that has to be in large part down to the gym hours he puts in with Askren on the wrestling mat. Askren might have added a new wrinkle to Pettis' overall game. And Bendo had a hard time taking Pettis down last time, depending on how much Pettis has improved in the three years since, if he can keep it standing it could be a rough night for Benson.

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