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The Official UKFF RAW Thread...

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43 minutes ago, Supremo said:

When was the last time we had a Royal Rumble winner that felt as cold and stale as Charlotte? This whole deal stinks of them giving her this spot for no other reason than she was promised it last year.

Regardless of what some people say about her, she's still one of the best in the business. She feels like a main event wrestler and I hope the plan is to put over Rhea and try to cement her as a top tier talent by having her beat Charlotte. I don't mind it if it goes that way.

It's certainly something they need to start thinking about - pushing other women in the division. It's been something they've struggled with for ages, but especially post-Ronda. They've not managed to elevate many of the women to an acceptable level unfortunately. Whether that's down to booking or talent or a mixture of both, I just don't know. Although I suppose it's the exact same problem they have with the men too.

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Yeah, I think it's the same problem as with the men but more starkly apparent because it's on a smaller scale, and because they don't have a bank of existing stars/"legends" to pull from in order to prop up the current division.

Charlotte has a similar issue for me as John Cena did in the mid-00s. Nothing about her feels real. Every match, every promo, every move, every gesture, feels artificial. There's never been anything in any of her matches to get me emotionally invested.

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The Rumble winner thing is so old at this point. It's strangling them to have to do this every year when they clearly don't want to. The chances of building an organic Mania main event like Hogan and Warrior these days are nil because they'd have to accommodate this stuff in some form.

That said, I've no real faith in them doing it anyway now. It's still just come down to the winner of a fatal fourway getting the Mania title shot or some other such nonsense.

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1 hour ago, tiger_rick said:

The chances of building an organic Mania main event like Hogan and Warrior these days are nil because they'd have to accommodate this stuff in some form.

That’s not true. Reigns and Goldberg was made without a Rumble win, same for Bryan and Kofi last year. And Rock/Cena, Michaels/Undertaker, various top matches over the years.

They’ll never build an organic Mania main event like Hogan and Warrior because they’ll likely never have two singles babyfaces on their level at the same time, and if they do somehow manage that and keep them apart until the Mania build instead of burning it on a TVor B-PPV, we’ll hate the two wrestlers anyway for being too mean/not mean enough, and we’ll complain that their pairing is too obvious and part of The Plan.

Edited by King Pitcos

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I was talking about a main event title match, to clarify. Almost all of those matches mentioned are either secondary main events, like Bryan/Kofi or matches outside of the title picture that trump the title. The exceptions are Rock/Cena 2 and probably Reigns/Goldberg, which I'm happy to admit. The latter having the sort of hideous build I'm fearful of.

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5 minutes ago, King Pitcos said:

That’s not true. Reigns and Goldberg was made without a Rumble win, same for Bryan and Kofi last year. And Rock/Cena, Michaels/Undertaker, various top matches over the years.

There are elements where it is and isn't true; when it's not a Rumble win, it's quite often a case of "point at the sign" or two people just saying "I want this match", and then it happening. The Fiend gets a match with John Cena because he pointed at the Wrestlemania sign. Roman Reigns gets a match with Goldberg because he walked up to him and said it was happening. AJ Styles started arbitrarily mentioning The Undertaker as an excuse for him to show up. None of that's new, it's been the way of the big part-time dream matches for a while.
But, at the other end of the spectrum, Shayna Baszler attacked Becky Lynch, creating an issue, and establishing herself as a threat, but then because it's February we have to go through an Elimination Chamber with a foregone conclusion before she can be announced as Becky's opponent. 

There are middle grounds between the two extremes - Kofi/Bryan was a great traditional babyface chasing the heel champion, even Becky going up against Ronda Rousey, while clunky at points, was using the Royal Rumble as the means to facilitate Lynch chasing the title, which is the best way to use that match. The Rumble as a very clear visual metaphor for the babyface's path to the championship is tried and tested. But the beauty of them having two top championships should be that they can take risks, and that not be the only story they're able to tell.

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22 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

There are elements where it is and isn't true; when it's not a Rumble win, it's quite often a case of "point at the sign" or two people just saying "I want this match", and then it happening.

But Hogan and Warrior was the 1990 equivalent of that anyway, wasn’t it? The two top stars had a little tussle in the Rumble, and it was announced as the WrestleMania main event. There was no great narrative to it. And that was at a time when people were still happy to follow wrestling narratives - now, the only way to really do the underdog chase is to lean on the “you’re not my real dad, Vince” crying, and that only works up until the moment the babyface wins at Mania. It’s all downhill from there for that babyface, and relying on that dynamic in the build up with “burials” and whatnot only increases the toxic relationship between the company and real wrestling fans, making it harder still to position someone as top babyface in future.

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18 hours ago, BomberPat said:

Charlotte has a similar issue for me as John Cena did in the mid-00s. Nothing about her feels real. Every match, every promo, every move, every gesture, feels artificial. There's never been anything in any of her matches to get me emotionally invested.

Bar a few exceptions (like when she and Ronda decided to beat the shit out of each other at Survivor Series), I just find her to be one of the the most boring, patterned, formulaic wrestlers on the roster.

She’s solid at everything, doesn’t do anything particularly bad, but it’s patently obvious she’s come through the WWE system with little to no other influences.

It’s no wonder they love her. She’s pure, distilled WWE style. Everything she does in the ring and on the microphone would get her a 10/10 gold star from Matt Bloom but that’s all she’s got. I think what we’re seeing these days is that there’s a definite shelf-life to being the top of the class at the Performance Centre.

She felt like a step above everyone when she moved up to the main roster, but three or four years down the line, where neither the performance or the act has really evolved? Fucking torturous. These most recent promos honestly feel like even she’s bored of doing the same shit over and over again, each hollow, “whooo!” more lifeless than the last.

Edited by Supremo

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I can see Charlotte suddenly jacking in it out of nowhere, Lesnar style. 

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Yeah, I thought it was very telling on the FCW documentary when she talked about showing up on her first day and basically not being able to name anyone in the business apart from her dad, and "not knowing what a headlock was". Obviously she's probably over-exaggerating for effect, and she may have changed considerably since then, but the way she wrestles does seem entirely like you describe - a product of the WWE system, without a single outside influence.

And that means we've never seen her adapt to her opponent's style, or ever really adapt to do anything different from her usual routine. And I think diversity/adaptability is one of the most important things to make someone a great wrestler.

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1 hour ago, Supremo said:

She felt like a step above everyone when she moved up to the main roster, but three or four years down the line, where neither the performance or the act has really evolved? Fucking torturous. These most recent promos honestly feel like even she’s bored of doing the same shit over and over again, each hollow, “whooo!” more lifeless than the last.

Maybe they could turn her heel? Er...

Turn her babyface? Er...

Move her to Smackdown? Er...

Move her to Raw? Er...

Have her wrestler Becky? Er...

Wooo.

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She badly needs to do a Bray Wyatt and fuck off for a solid nine months to a year, only returning when she’s got a whole new character, look and delivery. The only reason she’s mixing it up with Rhea and the NXT belt is because they’ve otherwise ran out of things to do with her as, “The Queen.”

It spoke volumes for both her and her male counterpart Roman that a slight costume change to look like pseudo-pirates for the Wrestlemania poster was the freshest thing either of them have done in what feels like years. Instantly made both of them feel like much bigger stars.

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Shout out to Cena though, still rocking the cap and jean shorts even when sailing the Seven Seas. That’s commitment.

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1 minute ago, Supremo said:

Shout out to Cena though, still rocking the cap and jean shorts even when sailing the Seven Seas. That’s commitment.

he is just paying tribute to the world's greatest sailor, Quint

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On 3/12/2020 at 8:05 AM, Supremo said:

Bar a few exceptions (like when she and Ronda decided to beat the shit out of each other at Survivor Series), I just find her to be one of the the most boring, patterned, formulaic wrestlers on the roster.

She’s solid at everything, doesn’t do anything particularly bad, but it’s patently obvious she’s come through the WWE system with little to no other influences.

It’s no wonder they love her. She’s pure, distilled WWE style. Everything she does in the ring and on the microphone would get her a 10/10 gold star from Matt Bloom but that’s all she’s got. I think what we’re seeing these days is that there’s a definite shelf-life to being the top of the class at the Performance Centre.

She felt like a step above everyone when she moved up to the main roster, but three or four years down the line, where neither the performance or the act has really evolved? Fucking torturous. These most recent promos honestly feel like even she’s bored of doing the same shit over and over again, each hollow, “whooo!” more lifeless than the last.

She's the female Randy Orton! 

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