DavidB6937 Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 35 minutes ago, Liam O'Rourke said: It was also the first time, and Steve had the charisma of a hundred men to make it seem halfway plausible. I'll disagree on the plausible part but certainly charisma goes a long way. Wrestling often works on the principle that if people are enjoying it then it doesn't matter how illogical it gets. That goes for a lot of storylines and matches. If you actually sat down and looked at wrestling matches purely from a logic perspective there aren't too many where something stupid wouldn't come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted February 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Liam O'Rourke said: It was also the first time, and Steve had the charisma of a hundred men to make it seem halfway plausible. I don't think that's a defence to be honest. I just think we let stuff go when it suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mal the Glorious Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) A lot of us were much younger and more accepting then. 10 year old me let a lot of shit slide. Edited February 13, 2020 by King Mal the Glorious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyattSheepMask Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 “Bro, what’s logic in a fake business?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awards Moderator HarmonicGenerator Posted February 13, 2020 Awards Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2020 I haven't seen Raw this week, but I never liked this sort of stuff when Austin did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I'm amused by a bunch of 30/40 year old men discussing why they don't let illogicality slide in pro wrestling whereas they did when they were kids, inherrently amusing And I include myself in that. Wrestling is the same, we're different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gaffer Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 I think the production of these angles has a lot to do with it versus when Steve did it as well, even on a subconscious level. They're so well shot and timed now that it looks phoney as fuck. When Steve done something backstage it was like an episode of COPS. Poorly lit, dips in sound, camera man running to catch up with him. It lent it an air of authenticity that the made for .gif moments now don't and can't quite have. And there's not a whole lot they can do about that, really. The vast majority of us prefer how Raw looked in 1997 but they'd be mad in the head to actually go back and do it for real. Most you're getting now is "Look, this was so unexpected someone had to shoot in on their phone!" and even that's filtered to make it look like something that was sent in to Al Jazeera in the mid noughties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted February 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Liam O'Rourke said: It was also the first time This is the main thing. It's not just that what's happening is illogical, it's that it's also derivative, so we're less willing to forgive it being silly. Because it's not like it hasn't been done since Austin, either, we had years of Dean Ambrose prop comedy, of the Strowman/Reigns feud seemingly built around vehicular assault, of Undertaker stealing Teddy Long's limo, Shane McMahon/Kane ambulance angles, and whatever else. It's all been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted February 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, BomberPat said: It's all been done. Everything's been done. End the business. To me, there are logic holes and there are pro-wrestling tropes. Logic gaps in story-telling are unforgivable. It's a simple business and if you've made it so complicated you have to ignore what you previously did to get out of it then you're an idiot. This sort of stuff makes as little sense as an Irish Whip if you're going to overthink it but why would you? It's wrestling. Absolutely none of it is plausible. We all know what real fighting looks like now and it's not this. So you willingly accept all of the tropes, which for me includes random borrowing of vehicles, babyfaces finding unattended beer trucks and milk lorries, heels always leaving their keys in the car, etc. The biting angle and the fake blood was shit. You've got your complaint if you want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 2 hours ago, DavidB6937 said: If you actually sat down and looked at wrestling matches purely from a logic perspective there aren't too many where something stupid wouldn't come up. There aren't any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted February 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2020 41 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: Everything's been done. End the business. To me, there are logic holes and there are pro-wrestling tropes. Logic gaps in story-telling are unforgivable. It's a simple business and if you've made it so complicated you have to ignore what you previously did to get out of it then you're an idiot. This sort of stuff makes as little sense as an Irish Whip if you're going to overthink it but why would you? It's wrestling. Absolutely none of it is plausible. We all know what real fighting looks like now and it's not this. So you willingly accept all of the tropes, which for me includes random borrowing of vehicles, babyfaces finding unattended beer trucks and milk lorries, heels always leaving their keys in the car, etc. The biting angle and the fake blood was shit. You've got your complaint if you want one. For me the problem is that it's an overdone trope more than that it's a logic hole. I don't really mind them doing the "steals an ambulance" bit, and I'm not complaining about "why did she let them take her to the hospital, only to steal the same ambulance and come back in it". We all grew up with Steve Austin driving random vehicles to the arena/ring, and with "Steve Austin has left the building" always meaning that Steve Austin was coming back to interfere in the main event. It's just that, made worse by overly stale modern WWE production, it doesn't feel fresh or exciting or interesting. You see a "rebellious" babyface in an ambulance you think, "ah yeah, she'll be nicking that in the next hour, then", without any of the knowing irony of Kurt Angle's milk truck - fuck's sake, they were already self-parodying this stuff twenty years ago! It's a clunky angle that we're all probably overthinking, that's all. I just find it more frustrating when I see something that could have been done well being done lazily, than when I see something that's just shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted February 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, BomberPat said: It's a clunky angle that we're all probably overthinking, that's all. I just find it more frustrating when I see something that could have been done well being done lazily, than when I see something that's just shit. They could have done, and still could do, another angle instead that was better. I don't think any follow-up changes that angle. Honestly, this place is just a load of bitching about the biting and fake blood if Lynch just disappears for the night. It wasn't a good angle. The follow-up was OK by me but was somewhat irrelevant. That B&W image is still the best thing about it. Just show that week after week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted February 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, tiger_rick said: They could have done, and still could do, another angle instead that was better. I don't think any follow-up changes that angle. Honestly, this place is just a load of bitching about the biting and fake blood if Lynch just disappears for the night. It wasn't a good angle. The follow-up was OK by me but was somewhat irrelevant. That B&W image is still the best thing about it. Just show that week after week. yeah - I think it comes down to the biting angle being absolute dogshit. Maybe that would be salvageable with a better follow-up, though. I just think it was unnecessary, and made it more into a "wrestling gimmick" than it needed to be. Having not really been a fan during the height of Austin's success, though, I do tend to find the whole "stealing a vehicle" aspect of WWE to be a bit naff. Edited February 13, 2020 by BomberPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Chris B Posted February 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2020 Outside of when he beat people up to steal their vehicle, I somewhat assumed things like the beer truck/zomboni, etc, were part of Austin being the 'man of the people' against McMahon. Like, McMahon has paid crooked referees and bodyguards, but Austin is able to ask someone "Hey, can I borrow your truck to teach this millionaire asshole a lesson?....and can you show me how the hose on this thing works?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members tiger_rick Posted February 13, 2020 Paid Members Share Posted February 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, BomberPat said: Having not really been a fan during the height of Austin's success, though, I do tend to find the whole "stealing a vehicle" aspect of WWE to be a bit naff. It might be nice if we could move on from the attitude era at some point but given how poorly they write babyfaces, I'll take one with some hints of Stone Cold rather than the meak smiley creatures the rest are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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