The Official UKFF RAW Thread...

[Chest Rockwell]

I can't believe Russo is still even a point of discussion. He hasn't been relevant for fucking years. These ideas are as stale as the promotion. I'm sure there's some intelligent young guys and gals out there who could do well. Hell, given a bit more creative control some of the people they have on the book right now might be decent.

 

It's the whole approach that stinks. Everything gets completely homogenised by committee bullshit, and I've no doubt there's plenty good ideas that get killed before they make it to our screens because there's plenty good ideas that have been killed on them because they bottle it, or go another way, or just drop it for some shitty short term non-gain.

[harlow2]

they have paul heyman and dutch mantell on payroll. give them a shot

[Ambulance Chaser]

I mentioned the ratings in a post over a month ago, but someone said they still get all the money from the advertisers etc, but looking at this historically low rating for the modern era surely something has to give.

 

Am I right in thinking that is ratings and viewers continue to slide that advertisers, or at least the big name advertisers won't pay the silly money to run an ad on a show that fewer and fewer people are watching, is it as simple as this?? Say Storage Hunters for arguments sake starts gaining in popularity and over takes Raw, or some other new show catches fire would advertisers say "well I want to be featured on that show instead of Raw". It's lost any cool factor or edge and is a sinking ship, would you want to be associated with it?? I may be completely off the mark here I don't know.

 

WWE it is about as far removed from must see programming as it's ever been. No quick fix here in my opinion, they need to clearly define that there are different tiers or levels within the system, everybody is the same, Ziggler, Rusev, Cesaro, Sheamus, Ambrose, Owens, Del Rio....they all APPEAR to be on the same level, there must be a clear top tier of talent, you aren't in awe of the main guys because there are no main guys, when Hogan/Warrior/Savage came out I knew business was picking up even as a 6 or 7 year old, I got goosebumps. Later, when Bret/Shawn/Taker came out it was the same, then obviously in the Attitude Era you had Foley/Austin/Rock/Trips/. There is nothing to hang my hat on, nobody gives me those goosebumps anymore, a Daniel Bryan match, or an Impassioned CM Punk promo gave me that feeling. Now I just watch and I watch some more, and I think "oh, ok, great" and wait for next week, nothing memorable, nothing. I have already forgotten 95% of Raw, it's only fucking Wednesday.

 

Sorry, don't usually go long with my posts but I'm sick of this company, or more specifically the main roster, this is the same company that produces NXT, which follows a basic linear approach to Wrestling and draws me right in every single week.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Ambulance Chaser

[FLips]

It's Smackdown spoilers but who cares at this point?

But WWE's answer to the worst ratings in 20 years was to have the Gobbledy Gooker on Smackdown.

[Chest Rockwell]

Hahaha.

[Benno]

I mentioned the ratings in a post over a month ago, but someone said they still get all the money from the advertisers etc, but looking at this historically low rating for the modern era surely something has to give.

 

Am I right in thinking that is ratings and viewers continue to slide that advertisers, or at least the big name advertisers won't pay the silly money to run an ad on a show that fewer and fewer people are watching, is it as simple as this?? Say Storage Hunters for arguments sake starts gaining in popularity and over takes Raw, or some other new show catches fire would advertisers say "well I want to be featured on that show instead of Raw". It's lost any cool factor or edge and is a sinking ship, would you want to be associated with it?? I may be completely off the mark here I don't know.

 

You're not completely off the mark, lots of advertisers already have agreements to run their ads on certain shows on the network, but not on that scummy wrestling stuff. It's USA Network who get the money though, so it only hurts WWE right now when it comes to their placement (obviously Monday prime time benefits both parties right now) and at renegotiation time on their current deal, which is believed to be 5 years.

[Benno]

Updated courtesy Brandon Howard (http://www.twitter.com/adecorativedrop)

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by Benno

[Benno]

And for fairness, where they still sit overall in Monday ratings (The three hours are listed separately, ranked by their total viewers in millions in the last column.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2015 by Benno

[FUM]

I notice a lot of Networks are now using Live +3 rather than Live +SameDay. Anyone know how WWE ratings are through the Live +3?

[Benno]

I notice a lot of Networks are now using Live +3 rather than Live +SameDay. Anyone know how WWE ratings are through the Live +3?

I don't think there's any data but at their last earnings report, WWE had massaged their TV ratings to be 15-18% better than what the independent data has been saying. The belief is they're including DVR numbers.

 

 

 

Source: @adecorativedrop again.

 

That doesn't help them with the TV Network though, they sell themselves as "DVR proof" as a live draw, like sports are. Advertisers know everybody skips the ads when they watch on catch up.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Benno

[air_raid]

This question about working with the old guard has provided me with my answer for that "what can be done to fix the current product" question ; you can't fix it to a satisfactory degree now, that's locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. All you can do now is build for the future. If you're excluding Cena because they can't keep going back to him and Lesnar because "part time champion" was a one off they don't have the depth to do again, you've got a scenario where your main event scene is populated almost exclusively by guys that haven't been prepared properly (or at all) to be accepted in the main event - and Sheamus. I say "and Sheamus" because he at least has a couple of runs with the title, if people can remember that long ago, and even though they were short and unremarkable runs like Del Rio had.

Historically, succession planning has pulled off to a decent level, or at least followed through on, so SOMEONE was in place for when the incumbents were moved on. Guys were made ready for the main event scene by being positioned against the existing main eventers and allowed to look competitive or beat them, before they were actually put into the pole position. By the time Steve Austin was put into the box seat, he's spent the previous 12 months being put in the ring with Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker and being made to look strong. Bret could only beat him by flash pin and the WrestleMania 13 stoppage (the best any wrestler has ever been allowed to look in defeat, ever) and in their final PPV meeting at In Your House, Bret needed interference to save him from a defeat. Shawn was not able to beat him. Taker could only beat him due to shenanigans. Austin was made to look on their level and after Canadian Stampede, nobody was permitted to pin him on TV. Steve Austin was made to look a winner, and once he was moved into the main event spot, he was never out of it.

When John Cena and Batista were put into the main event scene, they each had significant leg-ups from the stars of the time. By the time John Cena was put into main events, he'd worked competitive PPV matches with Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle and Taker, and just beaten Angle cleanly on PPV the month before getting the belt. In the next 12 months he was working with Kurt again and Shawn Michaels before putting properly over by Hunter at Mania 22, during which time they'd transitioned into using HIM to elevate Edge. Batista was organically moved into the spot by crowd reaction and the storyline in which the fans accepted that he could beat Triple H, so all it took was a really strong showing in the Elimination Chamber then the Rumble win, and he was made. The fact he then beat Hunter in two subsequent occasions (including decisively in the Cell) further established dominance, then (regardless of my opinion of him) the guy with the longest WWE title reign in ten years to his name, JBL, was twatted by Dave, further embellishing his credentials. As soon as he was back from injury he was back smashing anyone below him on the food chain and reinserted straight back into the main event scene, going for the Big Gold Belt and later winning THE title a couple of times. Once Cena and Batista were made into main eventers, they never looked back. They got it right with Orton second time round because by the time he finally got back to the peak in 2007 and won the WWE title, he'd already been in the ring with (and beating) guys like Undertaker and Kurt Angle, and even though he had to tread water for a while, you knew that by the time he was actually made champion, people were ready to accept it. And by and large, he's never really looked back either. He hasn't always been ON TOP, but he's been directly underneath and credible back in that position as champion whenever they've needed him.

Today, it's too late for anyone to get the rub properly from Cena, Orton, Batista or even Hunter. They got away with it with Daniel Bryan, miraculously and in spite of themselves, because over a short amount of time he was competing with AND BEATING all four of them. People believed in him, but he's been the exception. Nobody else has truly benefited from a run with Batista, Cena or Orton because of the holding pattern that emerged with how they have treated people lower down the ladder. Think of your Kofi Kingston, who was allowed to beat Orton in a Survivors match but was back to being a scrub once Orton put him in his place month later, or your regular pattern of how they think Cena should be used, from Barratt to Miz to Del Rio to Ziggler to Wyatt to Owens - your potential new star is allowed to win a token match over Cena, loses the feud in the end, then goes straight back into the midcard to carry on feuding with your other midcarders and three months later perception of where they are goes right back to what it was before they were pointed at John Cena. This is partially because there's nowhere else to go - Steve Austin was able to run with Bret, Shawn and Taker before he stood atop the mountain. Mick Foley had Taker, Austin and Rocky to build him. They didn't act while they had the hot hand - you only needed a couple of guys to have decent runs with Batista, Orton and Cena while all three were the brightest shining stars and they'd have, by this point, established main event stars to help establish Owens, Wyatt, Rusev, Ambrose and Reigns. Of course, they've been a bit hamstrung by Edge retiring and Punk leaving in a huff, but they've trod water ever since and half arsed a bunch of other attempts to make starts of Miz and Swagger then getting bored and giving up, trying to get Del Rio and Ziggler over as main eventers feuding them with each other over the secondary World title... there's a litany of examples. Your anamoly was CM Punk, who had all the stars line up for him - working with Cena, his contract expiring and the freedom to work it into a storyline, the climactic show being in Chicago, and an enormous fanbase of giddy dorks behind him. As I say - total anamoly.

In a nutshell, what I'm getting at, is it's 1992. Reigns is going to be Bret. He doesn't have Hogan or Warrior to give him a leg up. He's got to work with the Shawns and Razors who aren't really main eventers yet, and we're going to struggle for anything that looks like a proper main event for a while unless they panic and put Hogan back in (By Hogan, I either mean "Hogan as metaphor for Cena" or my preferred choice - ACTUAL Hogan). They've got to hope they stumble into a Yokozuna, or just persevere with Roman in the knowledge that in the future, he'll become established through sheer consistency, and eventually you might get someone come through with him like Shawn did with Bret. Ambrose, perhaps. The present's fucked, start thinking future. Pick your direction, go with it, and stick with it.

Edited November 25, 2015 by air_raid

[tiger_rick]

Pick your direction, go with it, and stick with it.

They have, haven't they? Isn't that the problem?

 

Pitcos gets some scorn on here because of his unrelenting attacks on the virgins and A-Train but he's always on the money when he talks about the direction. The direction is what people wanted for a long time. Long TV matches. Less talking, more action. Fewer gimmick matches. Less stupid skits. No bulked up roid-heads. WWE today is what the fantasy booking of yesterday asked for.

 

This has been coming for a long time and raiders post is a nice summary of where we are. It's no surprise to WWE. That's why they've built the last few WMs around guys who don't work full time. because they know the ones who do workfull time aren't at the level required.

 

Is the latest horrendous Raw number enough to shake things up? God knows. but something has to because not only is the product comotose at the moment but everything they do to "shake things up" lately shows they've got no fucking idea what people want. As I posted last night, it actually feels pointless to even think of ideas because they have been so blinkered for so long that they'll stick with this direction until they fall off a cliff.

 

I think they've got four genuine stars left who can work pretty regularly. Cena, Lesnar, Undertaker and Triple H. Below them, they've probably got four guys who are healthy and potentially stars. Reigns, Ambrose, Wyatt and Rusev. They've got Randy Orton who doesn't fit in either category particularly. In the short-term, I'd be doing everything I can to tell the audience that the four potentials are on the level (or preferably better) than the four stars. This isn't quite as bad as the picture raid paints of 1992. It's salvagable but they've got to have the desire to do it and the willingness to carry it through regardless.

 

Top to bottom the show needs to solve these problems:

 

I'm certain the 3 major problems are: a) There is no necessity to watch Raw (you don't miss anything if you skip it); b) There is little-to-no emotional connection between fans and most of the roster; c) At three hours, Raw is often a chore.

Excellent summary steak.

[The Clint]

When Smackdown moves to the USA Network early next year I think it could result in serious talks about cutting Raw back down to 2 hrs.

[DraxSpago]

This ties in in a way with that thread from the other week about putting the roster into different categories (main event, upper mid etc.).  They need to pick 4-6 wrestlers (the ones Rick mentioned above and maybe a couple of others) and keep them away from each other for months, and I mean 9-12 months and during that period don't have them lose on TV or PPV, ever.  I reckon after that you've got 3 Mania matches for the Mania after next and, if all goes to plan, at least 3 legit main eventers.

 

Basically, in an era where everyone else trades losses and no one cares about them, the 4-6 blokes that win all the time will stand out and look like stars

[Chest Rockwell]

Do they even have enough of a roster to do that?