Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 28, 2013 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 28, 2013 But it's not just Dolph though is it? The likes of Sheamus, The Miz, Triple H and even Cena all come across as a bunch of unlikeable pricks. Miz is a genuine annoying bellend, though. They went way above the call of duty to make him more than what he is. Shemaus at least carries himself like a star. And people actually like Triple H and John Cena. Ziggler hasn't got the balance right at all. You can come across unlikable if you have a fanbase who likes that sort of thing. Ziggler hasn't got a fanbase. He has a bunch of people who like him because they want to see him jump in the air and fall on his head so they can go "whooo". Nobody wants to hear him talk or have any interest in what he says. Because you can see through his whole act. Â That's the attitude they all have ain't it? A lot of it IS down to the lines they're given. Ziggler, Cena, Del Rio, Sheamus, Miz all sound forced, no doubt. But when the automatic response for getting your head kicked in is " . . but you're a fag! lol", it's gonna be hard to sound vulnerable or likeable. There's at least conviction with a some of the names you mentioned. At least with Sheamus or Punk you go "I bet he's a dick in real life, but its OK if he's being a dick to Johnny Ace". With Ziggler, you dont get a sense anything about him is real at all. Look at the way he dresses. He is another John Morrison. He's all style and nothing behind it. He's a coat hanger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 A lot of it IS down to the lines they're given. False. For one thing, Punk and Cena write their own lines. And if Sheamus doesn't have any input creatively into his stuff, that's his fault, because he certainly could and should. Same with Miz. And Ziggler's stuff on Smackdown was very similar to how he acts in wwe.com/YouTube shows and in interviews. He isn't a "wrestling promo" guy, thus far at least. Â Internet fans don't like babyfaces anyways - if they're too much of a babyface, they're "unlikeable" and same if they keep too much of their heel routine. The exceptions are part-timers we grew up watching before we were moany fuckers, and guys we like to think are being held down. It's partly due to a stupid sense of rebellion, and partly due to being a grown man watching a kids programme. Kenan, Kel, Drake and Josh come across as massive tossers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 There's at least conviction with a some of the names you mentioned. At least with Sheamus or Punk you go "I bet he's a dick in real life, but its OK if he's being a dick to Johnny Ace". With Ziggler, you dont get a sense anything about him is real at all. Look at the way he dresses. He is another John Morrison. He's all style and nothing behind it. He's a coat hanger. Â He's getting really good pops when he comes out though, in spite of everything. He's way more capable than I remember Morrison ever being, though admittedly I missed a good portion of his run. I think he needs time. He was a heel for ages and they haven't changed that much other than making him less likeable. Whilst it's true that delivery is all on him, you can't ignore this massive creative black hole they have when writing stuff for the babyfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 A lot of it IS down to the lines they're given. False. For one thing, Punk and Cena write their own lines. Â They're the top guys. Ziggler won't have that luxury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Butternut Squash Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 A lot of it IS down to the lines they're given. And if Sheamus doesn't have any input creatively into his stuff, that's his fault, because he certainly could and should. Same with Miz. Â I'm sure a lot of these guys are planks of wood that need scripting. That doesn't excuse the shite material they're given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 They're the top guys. Ziggler won't have that luxury. Anyone with two world titles and nearly ten years in the company has that luxury. Any talent with Ziggler's status has a say in what they do. And his stuff on Smackdown was just like his performance on the You've Been Framed thing he used to do on YouTube, which he wrote himself. It was his sort of material, it just wasn't much cop. We're a few years past the notion of blaming the "Hollywood writers" every time one of our favourites is shit anyway. If anyone really thought the performer had no control over their own performances, they'd be going "the road agents played a corker there" every time Ziggler had a match they liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallicks Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 They're the top guys. Ziggler won't have that luxury. Anyone with two world titles and nearly ten years in the company has that luxury. Any talent with Ziggler's status has a say in what they do. And his stuff on Smackdown was just like his performance on the You've Been Framed thing he used to do on YouTube, which he wrote himself. It was his sort of material, it just wasn't much cop. We're a few years past the notion of blaming the "Hollywood writers" every time one of our favourites is shit anyway. If anyone really thought the performer had no control over their own performances, they'd be going "the road agents played a corker there" every time Ziggler had a match they liked. Â He's been wrestling as a singles guy on the main roster as Ziggler for less than 5 years and he's a cup of tea with the shit belt twice. They've fucked him over countless times by having him long losing runs and losing random throwaway matches against people he should have been beating. I doubt he has that much clout backstage. Maybe he has some control over what he says, but they're the ones giving him direction, they're the ones having AJ cut up his passport in the ring (FML) - I dunno. Maybe he is just a chumpy promo. There's clearly a problem in the way they present babyfaces because it's not just him who comes across terribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted July 28, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 28, 2013 The one real time I thought Ziggler was good with the talking was his bits he did on Zack Ryders internet show (does he still do that?) I thought he had something with that, that could have been transferred to the actual shows. Â Pushing him as the smug showoff while babyface is the wrong way to go I think. I think he could be effective as a 'never say die' underdog fiery babyface who throws himself into everything full pelt. Â Mark Henry has made the transition to babyface very nicely though. I loved that backstage bit with Booker and Sandow and the little in-joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ColinBollocks Posted July 28, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted July 28, 2013 There's clearly a problem in the way they present babyfaces because it's not just him who comes across terribly. There are plenty more they do well by, though. WWE isn't the type of company that throws you a life belt; if you can't swim you're going to drown. Daniel Bryan had to contend with the AJ stink for a while, but he's Michael Chuffing Phelps and has turned the potentially lame into watchable TV. Ziggler has yet to show he's worth the investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Pushing him as the smug showoff while babyface is the wrong way to go I think. I think he could be effective as a 'never say die' underdog fiery babyface who throws himself into everything full pelt. That's only really an in-match element though. At the main event level, you need a personality that comes across in promos too. And I don't think Ziggler's cut out for the "I will never say die!"-type earnest stuff. And it would alienate the people who love watching him get thrown on his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Rob Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Got round to watching Smackdown, I don't get the Luke Harper criticism at all. Him and Tensai had a good couple of minutes in there, Erick Rowan wasn't up to much though I will concede. Still not horrible though, his splash was good. They need some skinny guys to batter the crap out of though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dart Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I really don't like Rowan..I do like Harper though, but I didn't see anything wrong with that match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Of Swing Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I really don't like Rowan..I do like Harper though, but I didn't see anything wrong with that match. Â I think someone in this thread mentioned that there was points during the match where it looked like it was edited which is a common production tactic when it comes to hiding botches on Smackdown and other taped shows. Not saying that is what happened of course but it is very possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 The ginger one just flails around like a child playing wrestling, his offence looks atrocious. If you're only going to do strikes, learn to make them look half-decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted July 30, 2013 Author Paid Members Share Posted July 30, 2013 Psychos observe the action and give the audience time to breath during and in between their destruction. Harper and Rowan dont. They look like they've left the gas on and have to get through all their shit as quick as possible. For what they are supposed to be, they aren't holding up their end from what I've seen of them on the main roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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