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24/7/13 Smackdown thread discussion spoilers etc


IANdrewDiceClay

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Ziggler seems like he's playing a professional wrestler a lot of the time. Outside the moves, he really isn't up to much. His promos are so shite, and when he's a heel he tries to be liked and when he's a babyface he's increasingly annoying. His matches are good, but as a character he's not my cup of tea at all.

 

Big E on the other hand is the man. Carries himself so well for a small in the worst singlet ever designed.

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Ziggler is showing why WWE were right to keep him in that midcard for so long. What a bellend.

 

On Vic Mackey's two sperm donations to the Wyatt family, they were awful but you'd imagine Kane is joining them, so at the very least they'll have somebody else that can work a match that doesn't fall apart. Bray is such a star, though, that shitty quick matches are just a backdrop to his ramblings.

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I've never really seen in Ziggler what everyone else seems to. Really, can someone explain it to me? Because I've never got it. I've never found his matches to be that amazing like everyone else seems to. I mean yeah, his bumping is good, but faces don't bump much in the WWE. That's for heels to do there. He's just always seemed so fucking unlikeable too, and his promos aren't top either. I really seem to be missing something a lot of other people are seeing with him.

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He has a decent look and has had some good matches but he doesn't have the charisma or promo ability to be a top star in the WWE. He's just another John Morrison to me, a good worker with a decent look who'll never make it to the top because they can't do the mic or character work. He's a good guy to have around, though not as a face, some people don't need turning, the likes of Ziggler and Miz are far too unlikeable to ever be top faces. They both work best as mid-upper card smug heels.

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He's a good guy to have around, though not as a face, some people don't need turning, the likes of Ziggler and Miz are far too unlikeable to ever be top faces. They both work best as mid-upper card smug heels.

I don't really agree with that, at least in Ziggler's case. As smug as he can be, he was never an effective heel and he'd wrestled all the faces a thousand times. He wasn't very good on Smackdown but it beats him spending the last month trading seven wins with Sheamus and Miz. Miz is a superb heel, but he'd done everything he could as a heel and hit a wall. With the way WWE TV plays out, burning through every possible matchup combination for no reason other than to fill time, most heels do need to turn face for a little while at least.

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His promos are so shite, and when he's a heel he tries to be liked and when he's a babyface he's increasingly annoying.

 

Boom! He's like Scott Keith if he was to wrestle. Catering to that kind of market instead of the money making market.

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Ziggler can't have all the blame. He's been written into two of the most bafflingly shite bits of the year - the promo during a match on raw, and then smackdown's car crash. He came off as a bellend on Friday, but really, could anyone have saved it? As Duke said, the only person winning out of all this is Big E, simply by not saying anything. Whoever's writing for Ziggler needs to fuck right off.

 

They've shown time and again that they have no clue how to make babyfaces likeable. The top babyface is a perennial soggy dick. Next in line to the throne, Sheamus, is beyond boring. They tried to derail Bryan by making him fucking annoying with all that weak link/napoleon complex bullshit. The Miz is an utter twat. Ziggler can't be held solely responsible for what they're doing with him. Also his promos aren't that bad. He sounds organic, it's just what's being fed to him that's cack.

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They've shown time and again that they have no clue how to make babyfaces likeable. The top babyface is a perennial soggy dick. Next in line to the throne, Sheamus, is beyond boring. They tried to derail Bryan by making him fucking annoying with all that weak link/napoleon complex bullshit. The Miz is an utter twat. Ziggler can't be held solely responsible for what they're doing with him. Also his promos aren't that bad. He sounds organic, it's just what's being fed to him that's cack.

 

That right there.

 

WWE struggle a lot of the time to create top babyfaces because they're written like twats. It's been a problem for ages and it boils down to the shit Hollywood writers they have coming up with crap that people don't buy into. Most of the top good guys don't come across like badasses and make shitty jokes that go down like a lead balloon instead. It's the reason that guys like Sheamus get booed when they should be getting better reactions.

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His delivery and how he carries himself is shite, though. He's not a personality driven character. He's all flash and no substance. Randy Orton's a shit babyface, but he carries himself far better than Ziggler and believes in his own star enough to have people cheering for him. Look at Sting as a babyface back in the day. You think there weren't times in WCW when they booked him horrendously? Yet he still put himself across as a likable soul. It stops with the performer if you are coming across like an unlikable piss flap. Shawn Michaels in 95 was an incredible wrestler. He had a tendency to do things which were unlikable, but he always threw enough cheekiness in to get him past it. He had a humour about him where people thought "yeah he's a prick, but he's our prick". Michaels always used to give that "there's many things to dislike about me ..." line. The storylines Ziggler is put in aren't the reason why I cant stand him. Its the smarmy cunt attitude he has, why I'll never buy him. Its why I prefer Punk 50 times more now than in 2011. Punk's promos are never about trying to act like he's above it all these days and his character is far better for it. This Paul Heyman thing looks like its hurt him. If he were to do this storyline in 2011, I guarantee Punk would be grinning and pretending he's not to fussed.

 

They can put you in a thousand storylines that make you look weak or look like an idiot. But it all stops with the wrestler how you come across in those angles. Nobody is telling him to dress like Rayvon off Phoenix Nights. Nobody is telling him to speak in that contrived bitch voice he has. I dont believe Dolph Ziggler is genuine. He's a geek playing a character. I dont believe its his persona amplified.

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But it's not just Dolph though is it? The likes of Sheamus, The Miz, Triple H and even Cena all come across as a bunch of unlikeable pricks. The problem with Ziggler is that they've not given fans enough reason to get into him. His face turn consisted of him getting booted in the head. Not really a ringing endorsement for fans to get behind him. I have to agree that he does need to tweak his character, but it's not just down to him. Surely it's got to be too coincidental that most of the faces are shite?

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This conversation has got me thinking, which babyfaces actually are likeable at the moment? For me, there's Mark Henry and Cody, both only just this minute turned, Daniel Bryan, Randy and The Usos and after that I'm really starting to struggle. I like Zayn and Neville in NXT.

 

Which babyfaces do you guys actually find likeable?

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Ziggler's not a personality driven character, which is why they shouldn't expose him as not being one. Why can't he go out there, say a few points and get over by having a good match? He don't need to be doing drawn out infantile promos like everyone else. Orton's one of the few guys whose weaknesses they protect. You don't see him standing in the ring for twenty minutes making "Daniel Bryan's got a minge" jokes. He'll just pout a bit before RKOing your head off, cos that's what works for him. Not everyone has to be John Cena.

 

 

Its the smarmy cunt attitude he has

 

That's the attitude they all have ain't it? A lot of it IS down to the lines they're given. Ziggler, Cena, Del Rio, Sheamus, Miz all sound forced, no doubt. But when the automatic response to getting your head kicked in is " . . but you're a fag! lol", it's gonna be hard to sound vulnerable or likeable.

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