Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 13, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 You've got to beat people at the end of the day. Look at Lex Luger. His chances of being a real money drawing player were fucked by the fact he never won the big match. He was seen as a choker from something like 1989. Ryback could afford to lose one, maybe two at a stretch, but doing another J-O-B on the PPV damaged him irreparably.When was the last time Ryback won on PPV? Was it last June or July? Might have to do a bit of research, but I'm certain it was a full year since Ryback last won a match on a big event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted June 13, 2013 Moderators Share Posted June 13, 2013 I honestly can't remember, so it must have been an age ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Kat Von D Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's not a defense, it's the reality of the situation. WWE did a great job elevating Ryback for a month, as they needed somebody to fill in for an injured Cena, but they didn't want to stray from their long term booking plans (Rock/Punk then Cena/Rock). As you say, Ryback is limited and does need extra care, but WWE would have probably half arsed his title run anyway, seeing as they didn't even fancy him beating a bloke like Punk in the first place.WWE has its flaws, but The Shield and Bryan show what they can do when they're into the talent. It's all well and good saying Ryback should have went undefeated until he dropped the strap to The Rock, but the reality is they didn't and now Ryback is main eventing with Cena.Who is saying he should have been undefeated until he faced The Rock? Like every other wrestler he should be booked well. It wouldnt have even taken master booking because the fans wanted to see Ryback on top. It is up to WWE to hide the limitations of their talent as much as it is for the talent to work on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman89762000 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You've got to beat people at the end of the day. Look at Lex Luger. His chances of being a real money drawing player were fucked by the fact he never won the big match. He was seen as a choker from something like 1989. Ryback could afford to lose one, maybe two at a stretch, but doing another J-O-B on the PPV damaged him irreparably.When was the last time Ryback won on PPV? Was it last June or July? Might have to do a bit of research, but I'm certain it was a full year since Ryback last won a match on a big event.Last time he won on ppv was at mitb last year apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum1993 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You've got to beat people at the end of the day. Look at Lex Luger. His chances of being a real money drawing player were fucked by the fact he never won the big match. He was seen as a choker from something like 1989. Ryback could afford to lose one, maybe two at a stretch, but doing another J-O-B on the PPV damaged him irreparably.When was the last time Ryback won on PPV? Was it last June or July? Might have to do a bit of research, but I'm certain it was a full year since Ryback last won a match on a big event.Money in the Bank in July last year he beat Hawkins and Reks I think. Then he wasn't on Summerslam or Night of Champions and then there was Hell in the Cell and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members I Bent My Wookie Posted June 13, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 Curt Hawkins, Tyler Reks, Camacho and 4 Jobbers are the only people he's beaten on PPV and the last of those quite rightly stated was Money In The Bank.He seemingly went from not being on PPV 3 months to being expected to take the title off Punk and since has been beaten every time since, there's no investment to his character at all. The push has to surely be over soon, he's got less credibility in beating the big names than Ziggler does, and that's pretty much part of his gimmick whereas Ryback is some unstoppable monster that actually gets stopped fairly easy (Henry, The Shield, Punk, Cena) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It's not irreversible though, is it? I seem to remember Batista's push misfiring for a couple of years, and he ended up in Evolution almost as a spare wheel. Then suddenly he found a new facial expression and his career took off like a rocket.I don't think Ryback is nearly as good and marketable as Batista, but I don't think he's completely fucked. He'd have to show something to management though, the way Batista did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The other thing with Ryback is not just that he didn't beat Punk but that he didn't destroy Punk. He shouldn't have been booked in that situation, and then when he was he shouldn't have lost, but if they were going to do the first two than he should have at least torn Punk to shreds and then have to be damn near run over by a truck to do the job. Punk seemed to be constantly outsmarting Ryback in that match. I dunno if somebody in the back told Punk to work the way he did that night but I can't remember thinking that he looked like he was trying to make Ryback look like a star. When the time came and they had a hit on their hands nobody in the WWE could be arsed with it. I still don't understand any of the thinking behind not having Ryback win in the cell. At all. I can understand why they booked him in it, even if it was the wrong decision, but why have him lose once he's there? What possible positive comes out of that? What's the con in having him win? People needed to believe that he could win against the top lads. He could have dropped the title to Punk at TLC in a hundred of different screwy ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 13, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 The difference with Batista was that he never had his time in the spotlight until he caught on massively. During his 18 months or 2 years with WWE, Batista was like an balloon that kept getting air in it and then went down a bit. Then when the balloon got full it exploded and he became this established name. And when you become established you came make a load of little mistakes with him because the fans believe in you. Rybacks balloon got full also, but then it farted out and now its empty and under your bed with chewy stuck on it. And worse still, its one of those shite balloons your grandad gets you in hospital with Bugs Bunny on it. Ryback is more like Samoa Joe in the sense that he reached a point where people believed in him and the fans were let down because they'd made him look like a clown for so long. I cant see Ryback ever recovering from it. Like Joe, he'd never recovered either and never will. If they'd have cocked up Batista pre-WrestleMania 21, the story would have been the same. You cant re-do the magic of catching on with the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Vamp, either Punk refused to lose, or WWE just thought Punk was on the level of Miz and R-Truth and wouldn't draw against Rock on PPV unless they gave him the historic title reign leading into it. If he'd lost it at Hell in a Cell, it would've been shorter than Cena's 06-07 reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members CleetusVanDamme Posted June 13, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 This is what I said before HIAC... Ryback needs to win the title. He's white hot now, that's what matters. For all the "well, he could not win the title at the ppv, but we'll do this and stretch it out for a few months..." fantasy booking, there's no guarantee he's still going to be this over. If they fuck him now, the absolute best case scenario is that they can rehab him back to this point again down the line. A lot of what they've done over the last few weeks has been done out of nothing but sheer panic (because of Cena's injury), yet it doesn't come across as forced on tv, the fans are eating it up. WWE have lucked into this situation, Cena stepping aside so Ryback can kill Punk feels completely natural. This isn't a Batista-like chase that can be built for weeks and months on end just through subtle teases, this is a guy who the crowd want to see beat Punk, and has entire arenas chanting his catchphrase now. Ryback's lightning in a bottle, you don't empty the bottle and hope you can recapture it later. They need to pull the trigger on him, now.Punk vs Rock for the title at the Rumble, if it needs to happen, isn't dependent on Punk going into the match as champion for x amount of days. January's a loooong time away, they can put the belt back on Punk nearer the time, if need be. They don't need to kill Ryback now for that match to happen.Stand by it now. They fucked him. Then they decided that the best way they could rehab him was to have him lose to Punk another two times, lose to The Shield a few times and lose the Rumble that he'd drawn the #30 spot in. I'd like to believe his heel turn on the post-Mania Raw was hotshotted and an idea creative came up with on the day, because I'd hate to think that they went into WrestleMania already knowing that Ryback would be turning 24 hours later, yet still deemed it best for Mark Henry to beat him. He's one of the biggest victims of creative in recent memory. The same people that decided they had to have him lose in October so that they could sell a match he wasn't in three months down the line, went on to be so short-sighted in April that they couldn't even give him one big win the night before his big heel run started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Vamp, either Punk refused to lose, or WWE just thought Punk was on the level of Miz and R-Truth and wouldn't draw against Rock on PPV unless they gave him the historic title reign leading into it. If he'd lost it at Hell in a Cell, it would've been shorter than Cena's 06-07 reign.Well either Punk's a selfish moron or creative's a moron because Punk losing to a hot monster babyface in a cell wouldn't have made him look any more of a loser than they feared people might already perceive him as. I doubt people bought the Rumble because Punk held the belt since time immemorial and wanted to see if The Rock could beat him for it. That's not how the WWE functions. Nobody gained from it. If you've got a heel who's not your top dog but can't put over the hottest rising blue eyes around for ages than what's the point of having him? And what does Punk gain from beating a guy who hasn't proven himself yet? Just so he's held the belt for yonks before he predictably loses it to The Rock? Punk would have gained more if he'd lost the title to Ryback, established that Ryback's an unstoppable beast, and then screwed the beast over over in a TLC match with an elaborate plan. then Then Punk's the man who scammed his title back from Ryback when he got the beast outside of the cell, and he's the man that could do the same against The Rock at the Rumble because again he's not in the cell and because Punk's a genius bastard. It's just arse backwards booking. Ryback beats Punk in the cell fair and square, Punk scams the title back in the TLC match, Punk says he has a thousand ways to screw The Rock over too at the Rumble, Punk faces Rocky at the Rumble, Ryback comes out to stop Punk cheating at some point, Rock rallies back and wins the title. Ryback's a monster who is capable of beating the big guys with the title on the line and gets his revenge on Punk, Punk's a mastermind criminal who it took two men to stop from screwing over the biggest name in the WWE and The Rock's got the title to drop to Cena. The blue eyes gets to shine, the heel cuts him off, the blue eyes comes back with a vengeance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maestro Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 They should never have fast-tracked him to title picture at Hell in a Cell in the first place. I know Cena was injured at the time, but it was short term thinking putting him in the match for him to lose to Punk. A part of me also thinks that WWE were a bit worried about the Goldberg comparisons with him slowly climbing the ladder and beating everyone and maybe that's why he was elevated so soon. And he should have never been turned heel. Well, maybe not so early on anyway. I'm not saying I was a fan, but a year ago Ryback interested me. I couldn't give a fuck less now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members ShortOrderCook Posted June 13, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted June 13, 2013 Ryback really wasn't as fucked immediately following Hell in a Cell as some of you make out, nor was it as make or break. They booked themselves somewhat into a corner but not so much so that they couldn't get out of it and Ryback was dead in the water. The post HIAC Raw Ryback was still over as fuck when the Survivors match was made. If that match went ahead and it played out as Ryback being left as the only man on his team against CM Punks full squad only to then storm through them leaving he and Punk last and then get the fall on WWE champ Punk that would have played to his strengths and the strengths of his persona. Then at the Rumble have him enter early/mid-way, smash through loads of guys, beat Kane's record en route to being runner up that too would have played to the strengths of his character and continued his momentum and added some doubt to the result of Rock-Punk and intrigue to a future Ryback - Cena match. Personally I'd have gone that way and then had Ryback get his redemption over Punk at 'Mania in a #1 contenders match setting up he vs Cena later down the line. They had that Survivors match set up, clearly with the plan to continue to push Ryback hard and keep him strong but then probably realised they couldn't have him get his win over Punk without ruining other plans which Cena or Rock may not have been happy to deal with, so plans got changed and The Shield were brought in and wrote into the angle, which may well not have occurred had Ryback gone over Punk somewhere. So good did come of it, swings and roundabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Yeah, in further killing Ryback, they did make The Shield. But they could've debuted helping Punk win the title back at TLC. A win at Hell in a Cell and a couple of months with the belt would've established him as a player before his first loss. But an unstoppable monster who gets stopped the very first time he faces a proper obstacle is ruined. After that, the only real way to even try rehab him was if that was part of a chase and he won the belt from Punk at attempt two, and even that wouldn't really recapture the magic. And it would've been pointless because he'd have been marked as a loser before he won the belt, and winning it later would mean a shorter reign before losing it back to Punk for the WrestleMania plans to go ahead. After Rybi' ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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