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UFC 160: 'Velasquez vs Bigfoot 2'


wandshogun09

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so you're saying to me that because Silva has already lost to the guy that was champion he has no right to be earn himself a shot at the title? if so, what's the point of Silva even competing?

 

...and again, who would you have put in there?

 

The Jones/Sonnen thing was different, i have no problem with people shitting on that because i see where they are coming from.

 

You seem to arguing against something different. The gulf in talent between Cain and Silva is astronomical and everyone knew what the outcome was going to be going into that fight.

 

Again, NO ONE is arguing whether Silva deserved his rematch, however it was a "joke" in terms of knowing what the outcome would be and the difference in talent.

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Bigfoot definitely earned a shot at the title. But as a matchup against Cain, I don't think anybody was expecting anything different from the first fight. If Yushin Okami walked through 2 or 3 top contenders in the next few months, would anyone expect anything different in an Okami vs Silva match again?

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Yeah, Fitch went through that with GSP. There was a point there where Fitch had racked up a streak of wins but never got that rematch with GSP. Rematches of one sided fights are a hard sell. The thing is, if a guy earns it, no matter how one sided you think a fight will be, he's earned it. Bigfoot undoubtedly earned it. My only problem with the fight was that it seemed so soon after their first fight. Rematches of one sided fights are fine but it's usually better if there's a long enough gap before the rematch. This was one year. But to be fair, Bigfoot was the best option after the Overeem KO, and they really didn't have many other options with Werdum locked into TUF and Nelson already booked.

 

It was just a title defense. They're not all going to be blockbusters or mega evenly matched fights. Now and then guys will get in contention who will be mismatched against the champion but you can't not give them their shot just because you think they don't have a chance. I bet Matt Serra would agree.

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Again, NO ONE is arguing whether Silva deserved his rematch, however it was a "joke" in terms of knowing what the outcome would be and the difference in talent.

well if you wanna look it at like that Cain's gonna end up in a lot of these kind of matchups in the next couple of years because unfortunately he's that much better than everyone else.

 

AND, steroids or no steroids he knocked the number one contender out cold.

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Again, NO ONE is arguing whether Silva deserved his rematch, however it was a "joke" in terms of knowing what the outcome would be and the difference in talent.

well if you wanna look it at like that Cain's gonna end up in a lot of these kind of matchups in the next couple of years because unfortunately he's that much better than everyone else.

 

AND, steroids or no steroids he knocked the number one contender out cold.

 

Ebb, you're again arguing something we all don't already know.

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The last two main events for UFC PPV shows have been a joke.

How can you say it was a joke? Antonio Silva earned that crack at Cain, it might not have worked out for him but he deserved his chance. Cain just took him out.

 

He beat a guy who got injured in the fight and a guy who came of 12 months suspension and off the juice. He beat Overeeam because he had couldn't keep his hands up in the third round, he gassed and gassed from barely doing anything in the fight. Cain destroyed him in the first fight, it wasn't a contest. The second wasn't much better. I feel for anyone who paid for that.

it doesn't matter if Travis Browne got hurt during his fight, it happened and he got KO'd. Alistair Overeem was the no.1 contender for the belt, and it doesn't matter if he gassed out, Bigfoot knocked him out cold.

 

The guy earned his shot, end of.

 

If you want to use the logic that Silva didn't deserve his shot cause Cain destroyed him first time, there's no reason why we should see Velasquez/JSD 3.

 

Who else would you have put in there?

It does matter, how can someone not being injured in the fight to the point where he could barely move when it was an even fight not make a difference? He was the number 1 contender who came of a year ban for steriods, who looked no wear near the same size as he did previously. Silva KO'ed someone who was too tired to put his hands up basically.

 

When did I say he never earnt his shot? It's not Silva's fault that the heavyweight division is washed. I'm taking aim at the UFC for putting on the last two main event PPV shows that they have which to me involved main events that were non contests before the show started.

 

 

Would you have paid as a fan of MMA to watch that main event?

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Ziggler fought Orton and Sheamus more times last year than he fought Kofi Kingston (probably). I really don't want those matches to happen again. So I want Swagger to win the ladder match, probably. There's mileage in Swagger's character vs Sheamus as well, I suppose.

 

 

The last two main events for UFC PPV shows have been a joke.

How can you say it was a joke? Antonio Silva earned that crack at Cain, it might not have worked out for him but he deserved his chance. Cain just took him out.

 

He beat a guy who got injured in the fight and a guy who came of 12 months suspension and off the juice. He beat Overeeam because he had couldn't keep his hands up in the third round, he gassed and gassed from barely doing anything in the fight. Cain destroyed him in the first fight, it wasn't a contest. The second wasn't much better. I feel for anyone who paid for that.

it doesn't matter if Travis Browne got hurt during his fight, it happened and he got KO'd. Alistair Overeem was the no.1 contender for the belt, and it doesn't matter if he gassed out, Bigfoot knocked him out cold.

 

The guy earned his shot, end of.

 

If you want to use the logic that Silva didn't deserve his shot cause Cain destroyed him first time, there's no reason why we should see Velasquez/JSD 3.

 

Who else would you have put in there?

It does matter, how can someone not being injured in the fight to the point where he could barely move when it was an even fight not make a difference? He was the number 1 contender who came of a year ban for steriods, who looked no wear near the same size as he did previously. Silva KO'ed someone who was too tired to put his hands up basically.

 

When did I say he never earnt his shot? It's not Silva's fault that the heavyweight division is washed. I'm taking aim at the UFC for putting on the last two main event PPV shows that they have which to me involved main events that were non contests before the show started.

 

 

Would you have paid as a fan of MMA to watch that main event?

 

So you're suggesting the UFC put a Heavyweight Title fight on the undercard? It dont matter whos involved in the fight, the Heavyweight Title fight will always headline.

 

As for for the first comment, of course an injury is gonna change the course of how a fight plays out but the result of the fight stands and Bigfoot moves forward... as for the Overeem fight, your point is irrelevant, Overeem got knocked out, if he was too tired to raise his hands its tough fucking shit, he lost and he was the number 1 contender. Bigfoot moves forward...

 

Plus as i asked previously, who else other than Silva would you have put in there.

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Well, Werdum should have been put in there. Fuck TUF Brazil, I'm sure they could have drafted someone else I'm there to fight a fighter way past his prime. Werdum/Big Nog is another mismatch.

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Well, Werdum should have been put in there. Fuck TUF Brazil, I'm sure they could have drafted someone else I'm there to fight a fighter way past his prime.

 

To be fair, not really. TUF Brazil does big numbers over there. It's the UFC's fault for banking on Overeem winning to set him up as Cain's next challenger. When Bigfoot beat him, it left them no choice but to give him the title shot. It was too late to take Werdum out by that point because TUF had already begun filming. Who could they have put in there in Werdum's place? TUF Brazil would need a Brazilian coach, Gonzaga maybe but it would have meant an eleventh hour overhaul of the whole show and replacing all Werdum's coaching staff and re-editing all the promotional stuff in Brazil with Werdum's face all over it. I get what you're saying but it wouldn't have been as simple as a bog standard fill-in job, or the Rousey-Tate-Zingano thing. TUF Brazil might not mean fuck all here or the US but it's huge in Brazil and that's a rapidly growing market for Zuffa which they'd be mad not to look after.

 

If they were going to pull anyone from a booked fight to challenge Cain, then Roy Nelson probably would've been a better choice at that time. They could have yanked him from the Kongo fight and done Cain vs Roy at UFC 160. Then again, Dana wouldn't want to do Big Country any favours would he.

 

Bigfoot, despite it being a mismatch, really was the most viable option at the time they were booking UFC 160. He was the only one coming off an impressive win over a top heavyweight (not just any, we're talking the #1 contender) and he was available.

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Do you really think that if during filming they replaced Werdum with Gonzaga it would drop figures that dramatically? Do you not think that perhaps the Brazilian people would be more excited for one of their own fighters going against a mexican for the UFC's top prize?

 

They could have even factored it into the series and made it a big angle so to speak in the show.

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Do you really think that if during filming they replaced Werdum with Gonzaga it would drop figures that dramatically?

 

Probably not but why disrupt a whole season of TUF just to give one PPV, a PPV that was pretty stacked anyway, a slightly sexier main event? I mean, if it was a Brock Lesnar type draw it might be worth it but Werdum probably wouldn't have added much to the 160 buyrate anyway.

 

Plus the ballache of re-arranging and flying in a new crew of coaching staff for the replacement, re-doing any promotional stuff and ads with Werdum in, all which would cost the UFC a fair bit of coin. Switching Nog's opponent on him. And for what? It just doesn't seem worth the hassle.

 

Do you not think that perhaps the Brazilian people would be more excited for one of their own fighters going against a mexican for the UFC's top prize?

 

They got that though, Bigfoot is Brazilian, as is Dos Santos who is Cain's next opponent. And providing Werdum beats Nog, I'd assume he'd be next in line after that. The Brazilians will be getting plenty of opportunities to see one if their own try to dethrone Cain over the next 6 months-a year.

 

Basically, Cain vs Bigfoot 2 wasn't perfect, it was a stopgap title defense for Cain. But to be honest I don't really get why such a fuss has been made. At least Bigfoot was coming off wins, which is more than can be said for Mr Diaz and Sonnen's recent title shots.

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The crux of all of this is, the UFC backed themselves into a corner thinking Overeem would beat Big Foot, heck 90 percent of fans thought Overeem would win and take on Cain. It may as well had been me fighting Overeem to the UFC, they saw Big Foot has a handy fall guy who was coming of a tarnished win over Travis Browne.

 

The UFC were kinda of stuck, Werdum was tied up in Brazil (Gonzaga is not a "name" in Brazil by the way, he is mainly a Boston boy this days) Nelson could have been a option but Dana does not want to promote him too much because he is a neckbearded fatso (cruel I know, but Dana will never let that go) and Struve got knocked out by Hunt.

 

They could have gotten Hunt to take on Cain, but I think the wheels were already in motion for Cain vs Big Foot before Hunt fought Struve. They wanted Cain to fight that weekend as it is a Mexican holiday, so the best they could do is Big Foot sadly. The could have done JDS vs Cain again straight away, but the 2nd fight was a bit too fresh in the memory and a bit too one-sided for them to go that way.

 

It was a shit Main Event on a competitive level, but it showcased the best Heavyweight in the world to his main public (the hispanic market) it was either Big Foot or nothing, again you can slate Dana from not promoting Neckbeard Nelson, but he would just argue that Big Foot beat better guys lately (and he has, even if Cain vs Nelson is the better fight)

 

I would have found a way to draft in Nelson and keep Big Foot on the backburner, but Dana as stated would rather have Cain on the poster with a local tram rather than with Roy Nelson and he will happily make a excuse or come up with a reason so he will never have to do that.

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Do you really think that if during filming they replaced Werdum with Gonzaga it would drop figures that dramatically? Do you not think that perhaps the Brazilian people would be more excited for one of their own fighters going against a mexican for the UFC's top prize?

 

They could have even factored it into the series and made it a big angle so to speak in the show.

im pretty sure they'd be excited to see Bigfoot in there as well though, im pretty sure Bigfoot is among the most popular MMA fighters in Brazil, people love the big lug.

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