UFC on FOX 7: 'Henderson vs Melendez'

[Egg Shen]

Barnett's always had solid hands, if him and Mir fought i'd happily pick Barnett to outstrike Mir.

 

Outside of dropping a practically immobile Big Nog, a gunshy Crocop (actually i wouldnt say anyone outstuck one another in that snoozer) or a one punch knockdown of Kongo, Mir's striking has never set the world on fire...oh, he did drop Wes Sims too, but that doesn't count.

 

Maybe im just letting my Frank Mir hatred cloud my judgement.

[Dead Mike]

I've picked wins for Bendo, Mir & Diaz.

I like Cormier but I've got a gut feeling (based on absolutely nothing whatsoever) that Mir's going to make short work of him in this one. Henderson by decision & Diaz by sub.

[jimufctna24]

Mir vs Nog 1 was a bit of a weird one, although Nog came in injured, Mir did show some decent striking with power and accuracy. Up until then I would have agreed Barnett and Big Foot were better. The Kongo fight Mir looked pretty slick striking with that counter that put Kongo on his arse , and people felt Mir would have cruised to a points win over Cro Cop if they would have gone the distance (it was a woeful fight though)

 

Mir is a good talker and so maybe I am guilty of being suckered in too much. I still do not rate Mir as a elite striker, but I would say he is better than Barnett. Could all be academic though, because I am still leaning towards Cormier to win.

[Egg Shen]

just seen Road to the Octagon and it has reinforced my feelings that Frank Mir might be a changed man under Greg Jackson, he's always talked a good game but he's actually talking like he's training like a fighter, Jon Jones says on there that Mir admits that he's got as far as he has without ever training hard.

 

We'll see Saturday night, but i'm pumped for it.

[wandshogun09]

Mir vs Nog 1 was a bit of a weird one, although Nog came in injured, Mir did show some decent striking with power and accuracy.

 

It's easy to look accurate when you're fighting a zombie though. That was hands down the worst Nog's ever looked. Did he land anything? Fuck, did he even throw more than 5 strikes? It's not Mir's fault, he can only fight what's in front of him, and Nog probably shouldn't have even fought in that state so that's the risk he took. But we can't hold that up as evidence that Mir's a great striker. Nog was giving him a spanking standing in the rematch before it all went so so terribly wrong.

 

Mir vs Cro Cop was a shell of himself by the Mir fight. He also took the fight on short notice and was carrying an eye injury.

 

Fair enough Mir still won these fights but knowing the circumstances around them, those two wins don't look as impressive as they might on paper.

[jimufctna24]

Mir vs Nog 1 was a bit of a weird one, although Nog came in injured, Mir did show some decent striking with power and accuracy.

 

It's easy to look accurate when you're fighting a zombie though. That was hands down the worst Nog's ever looked. Did he land anything? Fuck, did he even throw more than 5 strikes? It's not Mir's fault, he can only fight what's in front of him, and Nog probably shouldn't have even fought in that state so that's the risk he took. But we can't hold that up as evidence that Mir's a great striker. Nog was giving him a spanking standing in the rematch before it all went so so terribly wrong.

He is not a great striker, I just think he is there or thereabouts with Big Foot and better than Barnett striking wise.

 

Mir showed he had improved his striking on the first Nog fight, he planted his feet and threw combos. Was it up to JDS standard? No, but he had improved, it was more advanced than what Barnett has shown who is very basic. I think Cormier will beat him striking wise, but I am open to thinking it could be more competitive than people would expect.

[wandshogun09]

Oh I think I misunderstood slightly, he's certainly made improvements. How much under Jackson? We'll see I guess.

 

It's a good move, he probably needed something fresh and the thing with a camp like Jackson's is he won't be his own boss, he's just another member of the team. He'll be pushed more in that environment and he'll have to evolve just to keep up.

 

Still, whoever's training him, it's still Frank Mir in a cage at the end of it all. I don't buy his talk that he never trained hard before. Mir's an intelligent guy, I think he's trying to excuse his shortcomings there. As if to say 'I won the title, beat Nog twice, beat Brock and Cro Cop etc without even training properly. I'd be 50-0 if I wanted to be/trained harder'. It's almost half bragging/half excuse making.

 

I think Cormier's a bad style for him. Bar getting cocky, messing in Frank's guard to prove a point, sloppy shot into a guillotine or something, I don't see Mir catching him.

 

Cormier by TKO for me, after Frank hits his 3 minute cardio wall.

[jimufctna24]

Mir's an intelligent guy, I think he's trying to excuse his shortcomings there. As if to say 'I won the title, beat Nog twice, beat Brock and Cro Cop etc without even training properly. I'd be 50-0 if I wanted to be/trained harder'. It's almost half bragging/half excuse making.

This I agree with.

 

You cannot tell me he did not train properly in 2008-2010 with the improvements he made. He said something like this heading into the Cro Cop fight. I think Mir makes mistakes in the cage that he should not, but the main reasons he is not in the elite are purely natural/physical gifts he will never obtain. I think he has peaked as a athlete, but maybe Jackson can polish him into a more productive fighter. Like one that does not give up after one takedown (JDS) or stands square on and trades with Shane Carwin.

[pryko]

Do you think a small part of Mir moving to train at Jackson's is so that in the future when Jon Jones moves to heavyweight, Mir can avoid him by playing the "team mate" card?

[jimufctna24]

Do you think a small part of Mir moving to train at Jackson's is so that in the future when Jon Jones moves to heavyweight, Mir can avoid him by playing the "team mate" card?

I see where you are coming from but I don't think so.

 

I doubt Mir is thinking that far ahead and would speculate that Mir simply wanting to change things up a bit after his woeful performance against JDS. It will be a good year before Jones goes up, unless Mir is Champion (which is highly unlikely) I doubt Mir will have the prospect of a Jones beating on the table as they can easily feed Jones someone else in his run to the title (if there is a run he may get a immediate title shot)

 

If he would have moved to AKA, I think that logic could have applied.

[wandshogun09]

Do you think a small part of Mir moving to train at Jackson's is so that in the future when Jon Jones moves to heavyweight, Mir can avoid him by playing the "team mate" card?

 

Ha, well even if that wasn't the intention, it's certainly a perk.

 

I think Mir makes mistakes in the cage that he should not, but the main reasons he is not in the elite are purely natural/physical gifts he will never obtain. I think he has peaked as a athlete, but maybe Jackson can polish him into a more productive fighter. Like one that does not give up after one takedown (JDS) or stands square on and trades with Shane Carwin.

 

I always see Mir as the ultimate finisher. That's the way he trains and that's the way he fights.

 

Eddie Alvarez once said about himself, that he trains to finish fights, he doesn't train to go 5 rounds. He trains to give guys hell at full blast for however long his body can put out that pace and if they get through it good for them. It worked for Eddie for a long time. He's fought 27 times and out of his 24 wins, 21 were finishes. It's probably the wrong way to approach it but it makes for some excitement for sure. Melvin Manhoef is the same.

 

Problem is when the other guy doesn't go away (like Chandler didn't against Alvarez), they can give these guys a rough night. Mir's doubly fucked by this because he's not blessed with the athletic ability of a Manhoef or Alvarez.

 

I think the biggest benefit Frank will likely get by switching to Jackson's, moreso than any physical gain, could be smarter gameplanning. You touched on it in your post, Mir's lost a few fights due to bad tactics as much as anything.

 

Jackson is known as a great strategist and that's one area (among others) which Mir has lacked in his career my opinion. He seems to go in expecting to be able to just grab a limb and rip it off and either doesn't have a plan B if that doesn't work out, or he does but just refuses to try to implement it.

 

Jackson might be able to give him more of a focus going in there other than to just expect his opponent to fall into his guard and leave a limb hanging. He won't be able to give Mir a new chin or fighting instinct though. Whatever gameplans they come up with, Mir is still Mir. He showed massive heart in the second Nog fight but every other loss in his career he's seemed to just give up and wait for the ref to step in. If Cormier starts smacking Mir about, and Mir can't get the takedown, no amount of breathing exercises and soothing instructions from Creepy Greg in the corner will help him. If Mir wants to find a way out he will.

 

You can never count out the possibility of Mir catching something early on. But I think Cormier is too smart to play Mir's game. I think he'll keep it standing (Mir's not taking down Cormier), avoid Mir's ground game, and just blast him.

[Egg Shen]

Im only speculating here obviously, but i think it's safe to say that Mir's never trained like a professional athlete. He's clearly a talented martial artist, but i doubt he'e ever put the hours in on the treadmill or done proper cardio training, and to be fair when you have massive success without really trying i can see why you'd become complacent. He wouldn't be the only heavyweight to do so, being up in that weight almost gives you free reign to slack off because you never have to worry about weight. The only time i ever recalling seeing a dramatic change in Mir was for the 2nd Lesnar fight, but then all he really did was become a bodybuilder, it hardly looked like he trained to fight hard for 5 rounds.

 

When Mir talks about worrying that he'll retire without realising his potential, his lack of serious training is what he's referring too.

[wandshogun09]

The thing is even if we believe him that he never trained properly, that means he was half arseing it in his early-mid 20s when he was a nobody and supposedly at his hungriest. If he couldn't be arsed then what would drive him now? He's got money in the bank, a fit wife, a bunch of kids, nice house, he's well spoken, intelligent, supposedly good looking. He'd probably get a role in the UFC, maybe even a return to commentary. He'd probably make a great trainer if he chose that route. If all the losses and shitty performances didn't motivate him to train like a pro, what's going to now?

 

I just don't see how taking a gym bag to Albuquerque will be the thing that will fix everything and make him change his ways at 33. It's a good move but probably too late.

 

On him training and the second Brock fight - I thought Mir looked great physically for that. He was actually quite lean at 245. It was around the Carwin fight when he bulked up to 260+. I still think it's mostly excuse making.

[jimufctna24]

Mir agrees with me!

 

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/the_main_eve...I#axzz2QgZ46jc0

 

I fully expect Benson to win on Saturday, Benson is a smart bloke he knows the platform of Fox will given him loads of publicity. One thing I think his title reign would benefit from is a prestige fight . The rumor this week is that BJ Penn will be back at 155lbs.

 

I know this will upset the purists after Diaz and Sonnen got title shots, but if Bendo were to get past Gilbert I would maybe suggest UFC setting up BJ vs Bendo at some point. Maybe give BJ a tune up fight first against a carefully selected opponent. It did wonders for the marquee value of Tito Ortiz to beat Ken Shamrock or Lennox Lewis to beat Mike Tyson, and I think beating BJ would help Bendo's star rise even more. There is no one else at 155lbs that could bring the name value and interest that BJ Penn could to fight Bendo.

 

A even better strory would be if BJ could pull it off, A fantasy match up of mine would be Penn from 2009 against Bendo of now. I could not say who I would pick to be honest.

[wandshogun09]

Mir agrees with me!

 

 

I think he's right. The shit Brock went through health-wise had to have played a part in his dip in form after UFC 100. His stubbornness and refusal to evolve had to be a big part of it as well though. He made some decisions, like splitting from Greg Nelson who seemed to be doing a good job with him, which were probably mistakes in hindsight. He replaced Nelson with Marty Morgan who was a wrestling coach, the area Brock needed the least help in and who had no experience whatsoever in training MMA fighters. That obviously wasn't going to fix the holes in Brock's game. He'd bring Pat Barry in to help him with his striking, then he'd take Barry down. Why grapple your striking coach? Things like that stifled Brock's progress. The diverticulitis had to play a huge part in it as well though.

 

I still think though, if the Brock who fought Mir at UFC 100 showed up to fight Overeem at UFC 141, Brock would have done a lot better and probably even won. It just seemed like the confidence was gone and his physical explosiveness wasn't what it used to be.

 

The rumor this week is that BJ Penn will be back at 155lbs.

 

I know this will upset the purists after Diaz and Sonnen got title shots, but if Bendo were to get past Gilbert I would maybe suggest UFC setting up BJ vs Bendo at some point. Maybe give BJ a tune up fight first against a carefully selected opponent. It did wonders for the marquee value of Tito Ortiz to beat Ken Shamrock or Lennox Lewis to beat Mike Tyson, and I think beating BJ would help Bendo's star rise even more. There is no one else at 155lbs that could bring the name value and interest that BJ Penn could to fight Bendo.

 

A even better strory would be if BJ could pull it off, A fantasy match up of mine would be Penn from 2009 against Bendo of now. I could not say who I would pick to be honest.

 

Where did you read this? I hope it's true. People can knock BJ Penn all they want but they're judging him off the last 3 years where he's been fighting in the wrong division. Before that he was a killer at 155, Frankie Edgar might just be his problem opponent.

 

I know there were rumours of a comeback when BJ was training with Marinovic again a month or so ago and tweeted this;

 

 

Marv, @bjpenndotcom, and the rest of the crew enjoying their day after an intense #workout. pic.twitter.com/GY0FxlAp

 

BJ Penn + 155 + Marv Marinovic = BJ Penn at his best. At least it did. Maybe it's too late now but it's got to be worth a try, right?

 

Personally I'd fucking love to see BJ go back to Lightweight and wreck shop. Fights with Bendo, Melendez, Cerrone, Pettis, and the Aldo superfight when he eventually moves up, would all be brilliant. I still think BJ beats most of the 155 division if he gets in shape and motivated for it. Whether he could win gold again is anyone's guess but I'd like to see him give it a go.