8/4/13 Raw discussion *pre show spoilers*

[Killjoy_Gee]

Loved the singing to FHAAAAAN-DHAAAAAN-GOOOOO! We have to get that going in London when they tape here!

 

Ziggler cashing in was great, because he didn't just steal it ala Bryan but had to put a bit of effort into it. Sucks we won't be seeing him at the 02 though now.

Loved th randy savage chant. Did wonder of we'd get a crispen wah chant.

 

Do you mean the Raw and Smackdown tapings at the O2? Why wouldn't he be there?

 

The night of the RAW tapings, Smackdown are running a show in Cardiff And Dolph being Smackdown's champion means he'll be on that show. I have no idea how they are going to run a three hour RAW. Fandango better be a RAW superstar

[Fatty Facesitter]

On the subject of UK shows, I'm going to the Raw house show in Nottingham. Selfishly, I hope the SD tapings don't get all of my favorites!

 

Back to Raw, absolutely fucking loved it. Brilliant show helped mainly by the crowd. Some may not like the smarky tone, but wether they're marks, smarks, smarts, etc etc really doesn't come in it: They were just there to PARTY. And I don't blame them shitting all over Orton and Sheamus, who have done precisely nothing of note for months now. Why should they care? I'm not saying constantly cheering heels is the answer, but that atmosphere was something special. I'm gutted I wasn't there. I'm not sure what it is about the Raw after Wrestlemania but for sheer fun factor it's almost always more fun than the show itself. I went to 'Mania 27 in Atlanta and Raw the next night was actually better than the PPV. But in Miami and New Jersey the crowds really ramped up a notch.

 

The Ziggler cash-in was mega. He won't always get reactions like that, but that's a moment they can never take away from him. I look forward to the series with Del Rio because they could put on some absolute blinders together. Hopefully that's Swagger sacked off for a bit. The gimmick has its moments but he just doesn't seem to click with Alberto which is a shame.

 

Glad Barrett got the IC title back so quickly even though it's basically a meaningless prop these days. Not sure what they're doing with Miz, he's constantly in the media doing a fine job of promoting the company and even starring in a film for them, and now he's on the pre-show and then losing the next night on Raw. They've got a funny way of operating at times.

 

Glad Ryback finally seems to have recovered some of his edge. I think they should keep him as a tweener of sorts. He doesn't need to just beat up heels or babyfaces, he just needs to beat whoever's in front of him. Ryback just needs to be Ryback, baby. Having him go up against babyface elite Cena though is something different, which I wasn't sure we'd get with John boy back on top.

[Baz Windham]

I'll probably contradict myself here slightly but I liked the Fandango stuff, that was great fun and something that could catch on, but I never have nor will ever like crowds that shit on stuff and constantly cheer heels over faces, get themselves over etc. Whether it's WWE's fault that things like this now happen is up for debate, but for me it's a sad state of affairs when the general premise of wrestling goes out the window. I'm not old-fashioned in a 'protect kayfabe' way but for me bad guy vs good guy still has to hold some weight for me to invest and crowd reactions are part of that, so seeing Ziggler get a monster pop like that (fair play bet it was a great moment for him personally) just doesn't sit well.

 

Still good that everyone seemed to have such a great time and I won't worry, next week it will probably be back to most crowds sitting on their hands, which unfortunately is probably the lesser of two evils for me.

[Dazz]

Loved the singing to FHAAAAAN-DHAAAAAN-GOOOOO! We have to get that going in London when they tape here!

 

Ziggler cashing in was great, because he didn't just steal it ala Bryan but had to put a bit of effort into it. Sucks we won't be seeing him at the 02 though now.

Loved th randy savage chant. Did wonder of we'd get a crispen wah chant.

 

Do you mean the Raw and Smackdown tapings at the O2? Why wouldn't he be there?

 

The night of the RAW tapings, Smackdown are running a show in Cardiff And Dolph being Smackdown's champion means he'll be on that show. I have no idea how they are going to run a three hour RAW. Fandango better be a RAW superstar

 

Not necessarily....

 

They've did it before where someone appeared early at the house show, and boosted to make it for TV.

[AndyUK]

I enjoyed that show more than Wrestlemania. Brilliant crowd!

 

The first half would've been a great anywhere with Cena's promo and his hillarious trolling, Barrett surprisingly winning back the IC Title, Ziggler cashing in and the Shield/Taker segment but it was the second half that they really made. The chanting during the dull Sheamus/Orton match, as well as Fandango's theme was great.

 

Cena/Ryback, Ziggler/Del Rio and Taker/Kane/Bryan vs The Shield at Extreme Rules? I'm game for that already.

[Sexy Dad]

That was the first time I have watched the whole show for months and it didn't feel long enough! Thankfully all the Mania feuds have been put to bed now and its time for something different. Ziggler's cash in was probably my favorite cashing in moment since Edge's probably because Alberto got some offence and locked in his submission in a nail biting moment, the crowd were dying for the cash in to happen and when Dolph won the title the place exploded, a special moment that the crowd desperately wanted opposed to being told it would be epic as has been the case with the promotion of Rock vs Cena and Triple H vs Brock. Big E's genuine happiness when Ziggler won was reminiscent of Alex Riley going mad for the Miz in 2010 after the cash in, just a nice touch added to what is a top accomplishment and exciting moment for all involved. A world abpart from the drab exchanges of Del Rio and Swagger, The World Title hasn't had that sort of excitement surrounding in god knows how long.

 

Originally I had no interest in seeing Miz vs Barrett but it was a really solid effort and by the end felt like a big win for Wade with the crowd in his corner.

 

I loved The Shield's interaction with Undertaker and Team Hell No. It's certainly one way of keeping them associated with the guys they should be feuding with, particularly Undertaker. Perhaps, a strong year for The Shield and a Wreslemania match against Undertaker for one of them? (Or just some house show matches in the UK, whatever).

 

The great thing with the ridiculousness of the crowd during Sheamus vs Orton was how King, JBL and Michael Cole just pissed themselves at the chants throughout. The action in the ring did not matter one bit, which in most cases pisses me off no end when they're going on about needless stuff on commentary but this highlighted that if WWE are going to put out uninspired stuff, the crowd can divert all attention from it and entertain themselves and make a mockery of the whole thing in the process on TV.

 

The Fandango singing, if he is Vince's pet project, he must bloody love this! Entertaining stuff.

 

I didn't think we'd get Cena vs Henry this soon but it was good to see Henry challenging Cena, especially after such an uninspiring Wrestlemania effort. Henry got the big star welcome, Cena had the crowd divided as per which he is playing up to quite well at the minute (oh and that 2005 era style shirt, nice one) followed up by Ryback's moment at the end which blew the roof off the place was all great to see.

 

Booker mentioned that Rock is the current number 1 contender at the start of the show, was that just an error on Booker's part? (even though he is technically due a rematch) as surely the rematch wont be happening soon...or at least I hope not.

 

After a fairly dull Wrestlemania its nice to see a good exciting show and I'm looking forward to tuning in next week.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

A fine episode of Raw. I dont think it would have even been that good of a Raw had it not been for the crowd. They just raised the whole show. New Jersey are already a smark town anyway, so adding Brits, Canadians, Chicago folk and people from Philly as well as all the other hardcore towns, it made was a mad atmosphere. Which is what was memorable about last year.

 

Ryback looks to be Cena's next heel for months on end then. Hopefully when they turn him back babyface, he's re-established as someone who doesn't lose every week. They have something in him as a top guy I think.

[Mr Butternut Squash]

Woah. Well that was different.

 

First off, thank fuck the Rock's gone home. Him vs Brock is shit and the type of lazy thinking they need to get out of. Just don't be tempted on putting HHH in there.

 

Good for Dolph. Him and his minions looked legit emotional. He does strike me, though, as someone who's better whilst going for 'the chase' rather than holding the belt. He'd be better as a face I think, the underdog who finally got his moment. He also don't have good enough offence to be a lead heel. He should be bumping and selling his arse off for Henry or whoever.

 

The Yes No thing has been great for Bryan but I couldn't help thinking he looked daft between Taker and Kane. This could be a nice time to ditch the beard and grow up a bit. These Shield threeways are getting a bit old, I'd rather they start to flesh out the individuals in the group. Involvement with the Taker is excellent for these guys though (and Bryan).

 

The crowd was . . well they were great and they were obnoxious pricks. They made an IntCon title match feel important. You got that brilliant bit where they ran out of things to chant so they resorted to "Michael Cole!" and, of course, the Fandango singalong, which can be the new YES! and help this guy progress (let him do a little dance whenever the 'dur dur daaa''s start to piss of his opponent). Then again, it's all good to shit on the stale, uncompelling things about the product, the symptoms of cruise control, like the miz and Randy Orton/Sheamus. But then they undo it all with "We want Ryder", and worse, "WE ARE AWESOME!!" chants and you realise that Randy/Sheamus would have got a good response if one of them were a . . heel. Fuck off. They booed the shit out of the best heel on the night. Cena trolling them was priceless.

 

That didn't seem like a Ryback turn to me though (he carried on leading the crowd into "feed me more") and I guess we're getting a threeway feud with Cena and Henry. I'd much rather see Henry/Cena for a while first. It feels too soon to do straight up Ryback vs Cena. Cena needs a little while with the title and Ryback could do without ANOTHER loss.

[ClassicsGuy]

For the people asking earlier, 'where was that crowd at Mania?' - we were there, just freezing our arses off and praying it didn't start raining again.

 

That Raw was the best WWE show I've ever been to. Better than any WM. Even better than last years post-WM28 Raw in Miami with the Yes/Si/Lesnar stuff that I never thought could be topped.

 

It was totally the Brits who started all the Fandango stuff, mainly following on from Barretts win (Wade Barretts Barmy Army chants) and were in total party mode. Americans were bemused at first but soon joined in when they saw what fun we were all having. Everyone wants to be part of the cool thing going on.

 

No one gave a shit about Orton & Sheamus. X-Pac got chants because he was in box and acknowledged us chanting his name.

 

People were doing the Fandango stuff all the way back to the buses to Secaucus & even in the train back to New York.

 

On my way to Boston now, really hoping it carries on tonight.

[Bus Surfer]

Anyone else catch this?

 

[Ant]

I remember RAW in Atlanta being a blast as on Mania day you're almost nervous with anxious anticipation of seeing a Taker classic etc.

 

On the Monday it's all about letting your hair down and just really lapping it all up.

 

Bet some hotel staff are wondering what the heck is going on with the non stop "du du, du du du du du" in the lobby and bars!

[ClassicsGuy]

I'll probably contradict myself here slightly but I liked the Fandango stuff, that was great fun and something that could catch on, but I never have nor will ever like crowds that shit on stuff and constantly cheer heels over faces, get themselves over etc. Whether it's WWE's fault that things like this now happen is up for debate, but for me it's a sad state of affairs when the general premise of wrestling goes out the window. I'm not old-fashioned in a 'protect kayfabe' way but for me bad guy vs good guy still has to hold some weight for me to invest and crowd reactions are part of that, so seeing Ziggler get a monster pop like that (fair play bet it was a great moment for him personally) just doesn't sit well.

 

Still good that everyone seemed to have such a great time and I won't worry, next week it will probably be back to most crowds sitting on their hands, which unfortunately is probably the lesser of two evils for me.

 

Perhaps if there were better babyfaces that connected, heels wouldn't be cheered.

 

- Cena is a broken record.

- No matter how hard they push Del Rio, he's just not a top babyface because hes shoved down people's throats and the Mexican-American all things to all people character doesn't work.

- Orton is a far better heel and should have turned months ago.

- Both Sheamus & Orton looked like dumbasses for getting conned by Big Show.

 

There's all the main top babyfaces right there. Undertaker & Jericho are heavily cheered, but they're tenured stars who also part timers.

 

No wonder fans cheer the heels. Punk case in point, mega heel but also gets very cool merch like his new tshirt. Plus people are just there to have a good time. If the crowd hadn't done the Yes stuff last year, it's doubtful Bryan would have evolved into a babyface stood alongside Taker & Kane. The crowd 'made' Bryan last year, when WWE really werent planning on pushing him much, reportedly. In the same way, maybe Fandango got made this year, if it catches on and isn't a one night only thing.

[Dirty Eddie]

That's what's so great about these types of crowds - things that look fun to join in with become contagious. You just don't get silly stuff like that happening when the audience is mostly kids and it's a real shame. Things that happen organically are always far more likely to get over and stay over than some shitty buzzword or catchphrase that someone has been told to say. It felt just like an attitude era crowd made up up high-school kids and young adults that wanted a fun night out.

 

Orton, Sheamus and Kofi are bland as fuck, it's no wonder the crowd ignored/mocked them a fair bit. Orton looked genuinely miffed - I assume because he agrees with the fans that he is boring as fuck (hence wanting the heel turn for ages now). The "end this match" chants and then the "thank you Big Show" was pretty bloody harsh, but again hardly surprising. Everything about that match was crap, stupid reasoning behind it and all very pointless. Big Show knocked the pair of you out, just go and fight him for fucks sake, not this "lobbying for a match" tosh. What a pair of pansies. Just go and fight the bloke! Then they get put into a dull face V face match that clearly no-one on the planet was interested in.

 

A really, really enjoyable show though on the whole. Far more entertaining than Mania, with the exception of the class Punk/Taker match.

[DJM]

Am I the only person who found it to be a poor Raw saved by a great crowd? It had its moments, but on the whole it was a barely above average Raw never mind good or great one.

 

It was nice to see Ziggler actually win this week and win the World title, but he is worthless at this point. Imagine what Ziggler could have been with a few good wins over the last few months. He could have some good matches with Del Rio over the title, but I still do not see him doing much as champion after being a loser for so long.

 

I do not know what to say about Barrett winning the IC title again. What was the point of losing it at Mania only to win it again the next night? Looks like Barrett is stuck in the mid-card again with the worthless IC title.

 

Loved the Sheamus/Orton match just for the crowd and the reaction of Orton, who seemed like he wanted to just walk off. If not for the Big Show attack on him after the match, Orton could have used this as a platform to a heel-turn.

 

Fandango is growing on me. He has still to show much in-ring, but he has something positive about him. Not sure how far he can go with the name and gimmick, but good luck to him and he apparently has the backing of Vince.

 

Thank God we didn't have to sit through a long Henry/Cena match and hopefully we can have Henry leave the main event picture again now after one week. Ryback turning on Cena was good, but he is almost as worthless as Ziggler at this point. He has lost far too many times (in big matches) for him to be a good threat to Cena. Also, if they had the idea for a Cena/Ryback feud before Mania, why did Ryback lose to Henry at Mania?

 

As a few people have already said, there are no good babyfaces in WWE at the moment and it is one of the things that is really hurting the product as a whole. The lack of momentum for most of the roster is another major problem. It has been commented on in the past, but everyone losing to everyone else is really not helping to build new stars. WWE has John Cena and then there is a massive gap before you look at the rest of the roster to try to find another top star.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Perhaps if there were better babyfaces that connected, heels wouldn't be cheered.

Don't confuse pops and heat. Its why the biggest drawing card in the business is booed every single week, yet they can't turn him because the revenue he generates to the fans who aren't there to get themselves over is astronomical. If pops were the measuring stick of what makes a star they'd bring the likes of Slick back as a regular character.