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UFC 159: 'Jones vs Sonnen'


wandshogun09

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If the UFC actually intoruced comprehensive testing then this would be a completely moot point & these accusations would be immediately dismissed. Until then, especially with fighters who have failed PED tests in the past stuff like this will keep cropping up.

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If the UFC actually intoruced comprehensive testing then this would be a completely moot point & these accusations would be immediately dismissed. Until then, especially with fighters who have failed PED tests in the past stuff like this will keep cropping up.

 

Whilst I agree Mike, accusing a man who's never failed a test for STEROIDS is a bit silly though right?

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Possibly but who knows? Sonnen's a drug cheat, Jones might either be trying to wind him up or believe there's something to it? Shit like that sticks & whilst I agree that stupid trash talk like this is bad for the sport as a whole what's worse for the UFC is fighters getting suspended for PED's.

 

The frustrating thing (for me at least) is that this is completely in the UFC's control & they could seemingly easily stop it, whether they want to & run the risk of more cards changing & fighters dropping out through being caught is another thing. IMO the UFC would have a tough couple of years with potentially a few cards changing until random testing becomes the norm & fighters realise it's not worth it. It's a simple case of 'Risk vs Reward' & currently it seems the reward is worth it.

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Christ, not this discussion again. How many times does Dana have to say that even though he'd like to, doing random drug tests to the 500 fighters they have under contract all over the world wouldn't be financially viable for them and it would cause them to report a loss in running costs. Besides, Dana is completely right in saying the responsibility and effort should lie with the relevant athletic commission. UFC already go out their way far too much to compensate the neglect shown by commissions.

 

Mike, like David, you just seem to love bashing Dana/UFC at every opportunity and its tiresome.

 

 

 

As for Jones, he just doesn't seem to understand the business side of fighting. I've yet to see him actually hype up a fight in which it made me excited about seeing, and say what you want but that is a massive part of the fight business and always has been - which to me is why I believe he will never be the massive name in MMA like Liddell, GSP or Tito were/are. I also love it that someone (who thinks himself as 'Gods child') who is guilty of drink driving then crashing into a tree, something that could've killed people, is trying to take the moral high ground.

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Mike, like David, you just seem to love bashing Dana/UFC at every opportunity and its tiresome.

 

What bollocks. Just because I don't take every word as gospel doesn't equate to bashing the UFC at every opportunity. Get a grip.

 

As for Jones, he just doesn't seem to understand the business side of fighting.

Yeah his Nike sponsorship obviously demonstrates a complete lack of business aptitude from Jones' & his people.

 

I've yet to see him actually hype up a fight in which it made me excited about seeing

 

If seeing a fighter as dominant as Jones compete at the top level doesn't get you excited enough already that you long for him to pretend to hate his opponent then I'd question why you're interested in the sport at all.

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Yeah, that's the thing though, just look at it as another chance to see Jones do his thing. Not every title defence in a champion's reign will be a concrete #1 vs #2 situation.

 

That said, it really exposed the pointlessness of the Fox-ordered rankings when they are sitting there hyping up Jones-Sonnen for the light-heavyweight title and the on-screen graphic admits that Sonnen is the number nine contender. At middleweight.

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Mike, like David, you just seem to love bashing Dana/UFC at every opportunity and its tiresome.

Not at every opportunity, only when the UFC and/or Dana says something completely ridiculous. It's not my fault that he regularly puts himself in the position of coming off as an idiot.

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Lister - I agree, I've said a few times I'm not really a fan of ranking systems in MMA. I get why it's there, for new viewers to see where guys lie in a division, but what's the point if the fighter ranked at 1 doesn't get the shot? It ends up confusing those new viewers if anything.

 

Dana himself said they'll still make the fights they want regardless of the rankings, the whole UFC rankings thing is just for show.

 

On Hardy's tweet, I agree with him that it's unnecessary to bring that up but I didn't see Hardy tweeting Bisping when Bisping wouldn't shut up about Belfort's past steroiding before their fight. I didn't see him tweeting Tom Watson either when Watson called out Wandy on Twitter using the line "stay on your supplements at 205 or get KTFO out 185".

 

So I guess it's OK if you're a UK fighter throwing accusations around?

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I would like to defend Dead Mike there.

 

I disagree with some of what he writes, but it is because he sees MMA as more as a sport, where as I see it more as a spectacle some of the time and do not mind manipulation of ranking and fighter protection for profit and exposure of the sport. I do not think he is out to knock the UFC he just views the sport in a different way to myself and others at times.

 

Same logic goes for David as well, who I no doubt will clash swords with in the future on here :p

 

When it comes to the drug thing, I actually agree that Dana recently has done himself no favors. Watch the Kevin Iole interview for a decent reflection of how unreasonable he can be when posed perfectly sensible questions.

 

I am surprised Jones's comments about Sonnen have caused this much of a stir, firstly it is a comment aimed against Mr Pisstake himself and also this accusations have been done to people like GSP where there is even less evidence than there is with Sonnen. Yeah it is a bit unnecessary of Jones, but I have heard a lot worse said about fighters ahead of big fights. It is not exactly great for the sport, but it happens in boxing and other sports and they are not effected that much by it.

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Yeah Dana came across pretty bad with Iole. Iole wasn't being a dick either, he was asking valid questions about how the drug testing procedures could be improved on, but Dana just shouted everyone down.

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As for Jones, he just doesn't seem to understand the business side of fighting.

Yeah his Nike sponsorship obviously demonstrates a complete lack of business aptitude from Jones' & his people.

 

I've yet to see him actually hype up a fight in which it made me excited about seeing

 

If seeing a fighter as dominant as Jones compete at the top level doesn't get you excited enough already that you long for him to pretend to hate his opponent then I'd question why you're interested in the sport at all.

 

 

When did I say I didn't enjoy watching him fight or that he has to pretend to hate his opponent? I said I haven't seen him promote a fight or promote himself to where you'd get more excited about seeing it, which isn't exactly a crazy thing to say. He does himself no favours by doing bland and unapproaching interviews like we saw on Saturday, it might just be his nature but that was the point I was making (which unsurprisingly you chose to ignore) in that the biggest names in the sport have all had something that allows you to get drawn into them - with him all he has going is that he's a great fighter, which a all well and good but that only takes you so far in the fight business. I fully expect another "but Dana is damaging the integrity of the sport, trash talking doesn't work" speech from you. UFC is a business, MMA is a sports industry that depends on business.

 

RE: Jones/Nike. He is on a pretty low end deal with them by many accounts and his stuff isn't selling well. Where as a real MMA star like Anderson Silva is on big money (GSP sponsorship type big) for his Nike deal.

 

You may not like the fake trash talk element of the sport, but the sport wouldn't even be on anything even resembling a map without it these days.

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Jones being fucking awesome & tearing through the division has been enough to draw people in & enough to get a Nike sponsorship. No matter what end of the scale it is, and lets face it, nobody was expecting him to get Michael Jordan levels of sponsorship as the UFC is still a fringe sport.

 

You can say that 'he's a great fighter, which a all well and good but that only takes you so far in the fight business'. Neither GSP or Anderson Silva has fully embraced fake trash talking & they seem to be doing alright?

 

You're right, I don't like the fake trash talking. When a genuine rivalry comes along that's amazing. Who doesn't want to see two fighters who seemingly have a genuine dislike for one another go at it? What I take issue with is when fighters cheapen those legit rivalries with absurd, obvious fake drama. After watching this season of TUF how ridiculous would it be for Jones to come out & cut a promo on Sonnen saying how he hates his guts & has waited for this opportunity to settle their rivalry etc etc. At least treat your audience with a little respect.

 

 

I fully expect another "but Dana is damaging the integrity of the sport, trash talking doesn't work" speech from you. UFC is a business, MMA is a sports industry that depends on business.

 

I'm more than aware that the UFC is a business, most professional sporting organisations are. Unfortunately for me though I've no shares in Zuffa or the UFC so how many t-shirts a fighter sells, or how many tickets were given away vs. how many were purchased through him pretending to hold a grudge against another competitor effects me in no way whatsoever. As a fan however, I don't want to see that cringeworthy shit. Remember how dreadful the Rivera - Bisping 'grudge' was? If that's what you want that's cool but it's not for me.

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Maybe he just doesn't feel the need to "sell a fight" when his actual job is fighting? Lets be honest, only a few fighters actually try and hype their matches. Anderson Silva doesn't and he's doing pretty well for himself. GSP, when he's not talking about gymnastics, sounds like he's reading from an autocue when he talks about his "darkplace" and the like.

 

It seems to be the less talented fighters that have to resort to the boring trash talk crap. People like Sonnen, Bisping, Hardy who will always be nearly men have to do something to make themselves stand out from the generic no names that clog up the undercards.

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I think there is a happy medium. GSP, Anderson and Jones are very marketable naturally. They are all poster boy material and have exceptional talent. They all draw good business no matter who they fight, but they do enjoy their best business when matched with the Sonnen's, Rashad's and Diaz's of the world who captivate the public more.

 

Other challengers like Condit and Okami who do not sell themselves well have in return given Jones and GSP weaker buys. However, the business with these are still strong. Grudges and trash talk do help the big guns, but they can still produce decent business without it.

 

It is a hard thing to explain, but Jones, Anderson and GSP are far from your traditional "get in there and get on with it fighters" they just have that something about them that other Champions like Edgar and Barao lack to interest the public. Its a certain amount of charisma, style and look they have and it is nothing to do with how exciting their fights actually are.

 

They do indeed do not do a Sonnen and go out their way to hype fights, but they are public relation dreams at the same time. Jones reminds me of a young Michael Jordan more every time I see him. Anderson is a mystical character and GSP has the heart of a nation in his corner and is very easy to like.

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