UFC 157: 'Rousey vs Carmouche'

[lambyUK]

Ultimately, if you have a problem with the fight (or female MMA), simply turn off the show before the main event. It aint like the UFC have shortchanged anyone by putting a female fighter on top, the cards still stacked top to bottom.

 

Considering the quality and excitement the females generated in Strikeforce last year it blows my mind that any MMA fan is moaning about this.

 

You seem getting quite angry lately Ebb. What's up? I said I was a bit underwhelmed with the initial 3 fights of ufc 159 and I was given a "what the fuck are you talking about?" response...similar to the guy above.

 

I think some MMA fans don't necessarily have a problem with woman mma, but simply don't like seeing women getting smashed in the face. I have admit I have a similar stance to GSP, I sometimes find it uncomfortable seeing a woman's face bashed up. I still however think Ronda is awesome.

[jimufctna24]

But Dave, they fight in different fucking weight classes! Thats like saying Ben Henderson isnt the best fighter in the world cause GSP would beat him.

I was going to argue that as well.

 

But to be fair, he did say the UFC should have done a 140lbs weightclass so both could fight in that.

[Egg Shen]

Ultimately, if you have a problem with the fight (or female MMA), simply turn off the show before the main event. It aint like the UFC have shortchanged anyone by putting a female fighter on top, the cards still stacked top to bottom.

 

Considering the quality and excitement the females generated in Strikeforce last year it blows my mind that any MMA fan is moaning about this.

 

You seem getting quite angry lately Ebb. What's up? I said I was a bit underwhelmed with the initial 3 fights of ufc 159 and I was given a "what the fuck are you talking about?" response...similar to the guy above.

 

I think some MMA fans don't necessarily have a problem with woman mma, but simply don't like seeing women getting smashed in the face. I have admit I have a similar stance to GSP, I sometimes find it uncomfortable seeing a woman's face bashed up. I still however think Ronda is awesome.

Haha, i aint angry, its just the way i type. Sorry man

[David]

Look, the final thing I'll say on this matter is that Cyborg/Rousey at 140lbs is the fight that the UFC should have made if they were serious about female MMA. It's a complete no-brainer to decide that if you're going with one female division (which makes sense due to the level of talent available) to take both the 145lbs & 135lbs divisions and create one 140lbs division that would allow talent from both sides to compete.

 

We would have gotten the fight between the Strikeforce 145lbs female champion and the Strikeforce 135lbs champion to crown the champion of the new 140lbs division. I would have had no issue with the UFC pushing Rousey as much as they have if she was actually fighting the champion.

 

The UFC didn't do this, most likely because they figure that there's a very good fucking chance that Cyborg beats Rousey, and beats her really bad, damaging her marketability and flushing the money down the toilet.

 

But Dave, they fight in different fucking weight classes! Thats like saying Ben Henderson isnt the best fighter in the world cause GSP would beat him.

Rousey competed in judo at 155lbs though, and she's fought at both 145lbs, and 150lbs before in MMA. A tad different from your comparison, wouldn't you say?

[Egg Shen]

The UFC simply cant change weight classes to fit their needs, the weight classes are put in place by commisions and fall under the unified rules and all that stuff.

[jimufctna24]

Regarding Machida and Hendo.

 

I am surprised people on here are favoring Hendo, surely he is tailor made for Machida. Lyoto is too technical and quick for Hendo, plus he is younger and far quicker. I see Lyoto picking apart Hendo all night from distance to bag a points win.

[Carbomb]

Given that Rousey's pro record is still only 6-0, might it not be that they're planning to build up Rousey before having her face Cyborg, so as to generate more buys?

 

Also: you say she can't be considered the best female MMA fighter in the world unless she beats Cyborg - if she gets her own record up to 10-0, would it not be fair to say the same of Cyborg if she hasn't fought Rousey?

[David]

The UFC simply cant change weight classes to fit their needs, the weight classes are put in place by commisions and fall under the unified rules and all that stuff.

Ebb, if the UFC wanted to implement a 140lbs division they could have, and you know it. First it was Rousey not being big enough and your ridiculous Henderson/St-Pierre comparison, and now this?

 

Also: you say she can't be considered the best female MMA fighter in the world unless she beats Cyborg - if she gets her own record up to 10-0, would it not be fair to say the same of Cyborg if she hasn't fought Rousey?

Even before she signed with the UFC this nonsense with Rousey had been going on. Cyborg has offered to face her at 140lbs without any problem as she can't safely cut to 135lbs. Rousey has competed in MMA as high as 150lbs, so where's the issue?

[Egg Shen]

Yeh but in all this Dana's never said hes against the catch-weight superfight at 140, why does it have to be made now? Dont you thinkcit would be unfair to rest of the women fighting at 135 that their division is being expanded to involved bigger women. Its new to the UFC but the female weight classes are all regulated and established the same as the mens .

[David]

Yeh but in all this Dana's never said hes against the catch-weight superfight at 140, why does it have to be made now? Dont you thinkcit would be unfair to rest of the women fighting at 135 that their division is being expanded to involved bigger women. Its new to the UFC but the female weight classes are all regulated and established the same as the mens .

Dana's went on record as saying that a fight between Cyborg & Rousey at 140lbs is " not one of those fights that makes sense.", and he's right. Why would the UFC bring Cyborg in to possibly beat Rousey at 140lbs then fuck off again because she can't fight at 135lbs in the future?

 

They've made their intentions clear by sticking with the 135lbs weight limit. This suits their golden girl fine and keeps the #1 threat to her firmly out of the way.

 

This is fair enough, but I just wish that both the company and Rousey in particular would stop calling Cyborg out when she knows fine well that she can't do anything about it. It's a bit like thumbing your nose at a lion at the zoo. You can be as brash and arrogant as you like because you know that it can't get near you.

[Egg Shen]

I apologise, i thought Dana was on board with a 140lb down the line.

 

Again though Dave, its all apart of fight promotion and stirring up interest, Ronda's outspoken but its all part of the appeal. i could quite easily come in and conversely say maybe its type Cyborg stopped cheating and started picking on women her own size.

 

Rouseys earned her strap fairly at her weight class, if Cyborg cant make it down there its tough shit at the end of the day. Its like the GSP-Anderson situation...GSP's complain in the whole matter is that he doesnt wanna move up and give an unfair size advantage to the guy whos naturally alot bigger than him.

 

After taking all this into account though is it a givenc that a Rousey-Cyborg fight would be bigger than Rousey-Tate 2?

[David]

I apologise, i thought Dana was on board with a 140lb down the line.

Fair enough.

 

Again though Dave, its all apart of fight promotion and stirring up interest, Ronda's outspoken but its all part of the appeal.

To call out someone who can't actually drop enough weight to fight you? How would the MMA world react if Anderson Silva called out Jon Jones, but refused to fight him unless he dropped to 185lbs? Would that be considered stirring up interest and simple fight promotion?

 

i could quite easily come in and conversely say maybe its type Cynorg stopped cheating and started picking on women her own size.

You could, but then I could once again point out that Rousey has fought at 150lbs, never mind 140lbs, and is big enough to face Cyborg.

 

Rouseys earned her strap fairly at her weight class, if Cyborg cant make it down there its tough shit at the end of the day.

That's true, but it doesn't change the fact that the goalposts were placed specifically to stop Cyborg being able to physically fight Rousey, thus ensuring that the UFC's golden girl isn't soundly beaten.

 

Its like the GSP-Anderson situation...GSP's complain in the whole matter is that he doesnt wanna move up and give an unfair size advantage to the guy whos naturally alot bigger than him.

Nah, once again you've made a ridiculous comparison. Has St-Pierre competed at 185lbs and above in the past? If he hasn't, then the situation bears no resemblance at all with the Cyborg/Rousey situation.

 

After taking all this into account though is it a givenc that a Rousey-Cyborg fight would be bigger than Rousey-Tate 2?

Promoted properly, yes. You have a wrecking ball who hasn't lost in almost eight years and who pretty much kills everyone she fights going against the UFC's chosen one. That is much more enticing than seeing Rousey beat Tate again.

[Egg Shen]

first off, i'd like to apologise for some of my spelling above, trying to reply on my phone is not easy.

 

the fact that Rousey has fought at 150 in the past is completely irrelevent as well though, can you name the woman she fought at that weight? thought not, she fought a couple of no names on her way to finding her right weight class. Rousey may be able to make the higher weight but why when it puts her at a considerable size disadvantage.

 

There is a massive difference in fighting a no-name in a higher weight division to fighting the no.1 fighter in that weight class, you surely have to agree with that?

 

The 140lb division favours no one but Cyborg, so why make it? Like i said previously, everyone she ever fought at 145lb were blown up 135lber's anyway, you're saying that the goal posts were set at 135lb to specifically protect Ronda from Cyborg, but why would you set the posts at 140lb to specifically give Cyborg a size advantage of every other female fighter in the division.

[Egg Shen]

i take back my initial apology...

 

Dana open to catchweight fight down the line.

[David]

The 140lb division favours no one but Cyborg, so why make it? Like i said previously, everyone she ever fought at 145lb were blown up 135lber's anyway, you're saying that the goal posts were set at 135lb to specifically protect Ronda from Cyborg, but why would you set the posts at 140lb to specifically give Cyborg a size advantage of every other female fighter in the division.

Right, so what we have is a fighter in Cyborg who can't make 135lbs and remain healthy, and a fighter in Rousey who doesn't want to move up in weight. That's where it ends then as far as I'm concerned.

 

That's okay by me, but I likely won't be interested enough to watch Rousey fight, and by all accounts I'm not alone. I think Dana and the UFC know this to be true as well, which is why this card has been loaded with great fights. It simply won't bomb because of the names it has attached to it, which will allow Dana to come out at the post-fight presser with a grin on his face proclaiming Rousey-mania to be solely responsible for the success of the show.

 

I'll be watching 157 for the rest of the stacked card, but I have no interest in seeing Rousey fight anyone except Cyborg at this stage. My point throughout all of this is that if you want to claim to be the #1 female MMA fighter out there you have to fight Cyborg, and vice versa. Rousey can be the best at 135lbs if she likes, and Cyborg can come back and fight at 145lbs and claim to be the best in that weight class, but no one will really give a fuck.

 

Ronda Rousey vs Liz Carmouche wouldn't have registered much on my radar had it happened in Strikeforce, and a few episodes of Prime Time and Dana White giving her a UFC belt won't make the fight any more interesting for me in the UFC.

 

I simply see it as Cyborg being physically unable to cut to 135lbs, whilst Rousey chooses not to move up and fight at 140lbs. One fighter is making the choice not to fight, whilst the other simply doesn't have the choice.

 

As for White being open to a 140lbs fight, I seriously doubt it. Why would he bring Cyborg in to face Rousey at 140lbs when there's no weight division for her? If she beats Rousey where does she go from there? It's a lose/lose situation for the UFC, so it won't happen. He's already said that it makes no sense, and he's 100% correct.

 

It's shit like this that pisses me off;

 

"Listen, 'Cyborg' either wants to come in and fight for the title and get a big payday and fight the champion or she doesn't," said White.

She can't make that weight. It's not difficult to understand.