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UFC 157: 'Rousey vs Carmouche'


wandshogun09

Who wins and how?  

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I read the comments underneath the article someone posted that Meltzer wrote, the one that Dana got angry at about the women's fight not being likely to draw. There are some proper cunts on there, talking about how it won't be interesting and that they'll probably switch off right before. Rousey sounds like a great asset for UFC, so I hope the PPV does good numbers. From what I've seen so far, MMA harcore fans are a bigger bunch of turds than RoHbots.

Henderson and Machida is the main event of this PPV for me, and I couldn't really give a fuck who wins the female bout (I'll watch it if I have time, but it's not a must-see for me). Until they develop a proper 140lbs division which will see the majority of decent female MMA talent able to compete fairly then I have no interest. This 135lbs deal has been done blatantly to keep Cyborg out of the picture. When you're picking weight limits in order to keep the most dominant female MMA fighter in history out of the equation the situation is a farce.

 

Truth be told, if Rousey looked like her opponent she probably wouldn't be getting the golden girl treatment. She's being pushed because she has a pretty face, blonde hair and a decent rack, simple as that. She's a tool to get the UFC onto mainstream magazine covers and the like.

 

I'm investing no time or effort into the division because I know as soon as she loses, it'll all disappear quick sharpish, so what's the point?

 

EDIT: In fact Wand, can you edit your poll and add a "who gives a fuck?" option to the main event choices? ;)

But Dave, doesn't hold any stock with you that Cyborg was gassed off her tits when she was dominating? Thats why i dont fully agree.with what your saying. If Cyborg was proven clean and they did this i'd be questioning the decision, but she didn't. It's Cyborg's fault.

 

I don't usually agree with a lot of what David says regarding MMA however on this occasion as exaggerated as his point is, I do agree.

 

The UFC has no interest in women's MMA whatsoever, they have an interest in money, success and free publicity. Ronda is a moderately attractive woman at best however when put in the class of women's MMA fighters she looks way more attractive than she is due to the unattractiveness of a large percentage of them and that creates attention because people don't expect to see attractive girls fighting.

 

Now fair enough looks alone aren't going to do it, she's less attractive than say Gina Carano and no more attractive than say Miesha Tate so you need to have a good story and a gimmick to really ride the hype train...both of which she has.

 

UFC have created a weight class and handed Rousey a title so they had no intention whatsoever of then having her fight Cyborg, or even someone like Coenen.

 

I think that writing Cyborg's achievements off due to (alleged) steroid use is hugely unfair as well, espescially when a very large percentage of UFC fighters have used or do use numerous PED's. Cyborg's main issue wasn't that she allegedly used steroids, it's that she was stupid enough to mis-time her cycles and get caught.

What the fuck are you on about?

 

The UFC hasnt created a weight class specifically for Rousey, its the same weight class she fought in whilst she was in Strikeforce. The UFC has simply re-branded the Strikeforce 135lb division as the UFC 135lb division.

 

They've done it so she avoids fighters like Marlos Coenen? Coenen fought in the Strikeforce 135lb division! She held the belt until she was beaten by Meisha Tate.

 

The only name above 135lb worth even talking about is Cyborg and even though she dominated at 145lb she basically beat up blown up 135lbers because theres very few female fighters at 145. Everyones acting like Rousey's being given special treatment to protect her? Bollocks is she.

 

Its no different to the UFC moving the WEC's 135 and 145 divisions over and crowning Cruz and Aldo the UFC champs of them divisions.

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The UFC hasnt created a weight class specifically for Rousey, its the same weight class she fought in whilst she was in Strikeforce. The UFC has simply re-branded the Strikeforce 135lb division as the UFC 135lb division.

 

They've done it so she avoids fighters like Marlos Coenen? Coenen fought in the Strikeforce 135lb division! She held the belt until she was beaten by Meisha Tate.

 

The only name above 135lb worth even talking about is Cyborg and even though she dominated at 145lb she basically beat up blown up 135lbers because theres very few female fighters at 145. Everyones acting like Rousey's being given special treatment to protect her? Bollocks is she.

 

Its no different to the UFC moving the WEC's 135 and 145 divisions over and crowning Cruz and Aldo the UFC champs of them divisions.

It wouldn't have made more sense to create a division midway between 145lbs & 135lbs to allow fighters from both divisions the opportunity to fight at a healthy weight? Dana White has made it clear that it's the Rousey show. He has no real interest in promoting female MMA, and has said that for years now.

 

As has been mentioned, it'll be very interesting to see where it all goes if & when Rousey loses.

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Considering the UFC are promoting 125lbs and have plans to start a 115lbs in the distant future. I do not think it will be as hard to promote the "Rousey slayer" as it will some of the lighter weight classes. Plus, what Dana says in the past and what he does in the future can be 2 totally different things.

 

I think the women's class will grow deeper the next few years.

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I read the comments underneath the article someone posted that Meltzer wrote, the one that Dana got angry at about the women's fight not being likely to draw. There are some proper cunts on there, talking about how it won't be interesting and that they'll probably switch off right before. Rousey sounds like a great asset for UFC, so I hope the PPV does good numbers. From what I've seen so far, MMA harcore fans are a bigger bunch of turds than RoHbots.

Henderson and Machida is the main event of this PPV for me, and I couldn't really give a fuck who wins the female bout (I'll watch it if I have time, but it's not a must-see for me). Until they develop a proper 140lbs division which will see the majority of decent female MMA talent able to compete fairly then I have no interest. This 135lbs deal has been done blatantly to keep Cyborg out of the picture. When you're picking weight limits in order to keep the most dominant female MMA fighter in history out of the equation the situation is a farce.

 

Truth be told, if Rousey looked like her opponent she probably wouldn't be getting the golden girl treatment. She's being pushed because she has a pretty face, blonde hair and a decent rack, simple as that. She's a tool to get the UFC onto mainstream magazine covers and the like.

 

I'm investing no time or effort into the division because I know as soon as she loses, it'll all disappear quick sharpish, so what's the point?

 

EDIT: In fact Wand, can you edit your poll and add a "who gives a fuck?" option to the main event choices? ;)

But Dave, doesn't hold any stock with you that Cyborg was gassed off her tits when she was dominating? Thats why i dont fully agree.with what your saying. If Cyborg was proven clean and they did this i'd be questioning the decision, but she didn't. It's Cyborg's fault.

 

I don't usually agree with a lot of what David says regarding MMA however on this occasion as exaggerated as his point is, I do agree.

 

The UFC has no interest in women's MMA whatsoever, they have an interest in money, success and free publicity. Ronda is a moderately attractive woman at best however when put in the class of women's MMA fighters she looks way more attractive than she is due to the unattractiveness of a large percentage of them and that creates attention because people don't expect to see attractive girls fighting.

 

Now fair enough looks alone aren't going to do it, she's less attractive than say Gina Carano and no more attractive than say Miesha Tate so you need to have a good story and a gimmick to really ride the hype train...both of which she has.

 

UFC have created a weight class and handed Rousey a title so they had no intention whatsoever of then having her fight Cyborg, or even someone like Coenen.

 

I think that writing Cyborg's achievements off due to (alleged) steroid use is hugely unfair as well, espescially when a very large percentage of UFC fighters have used or do use numerous PED's. Cyborg's main issue wasn't that she allegedly used steroids, it's that she was stupid enough to mis-time her cycles and get caught.

What the fuck are you on about?

 

The UFC hasnt created a weight class specifically for Rousey, its the same weight class she fought in whilst she was in Strikeforce. The UFC has simply re-branded the Strikeforce 135lb division as the UFC 135lb division.

 

They've done it so she avoids fighters like Marlos Coenen? Coenen fought in the Strikeforce 135lb division! She held the belt until she was beaten by Meisha Tate.

 

The only name above 135lb worth even talking about is Cyborg and even though she dominated at 145lb she basically beat up blown up 135lbers because theres very few female fighters at 145. Everyones acting like Rousey's being given special treatment to protect her? Bollocks is she.

 

Its no different to the UFC moving the WEC's 135 and 145 divisions over and crowning Cruz and Aldo the UFC champs of them divisions.

 

I think maybe I've worded what I was trying to say quite badly however your opening line is a bit of an over reaction.

 

The two should be seperate in the fact that they HAVE created a weight class or division specifically for Rousey in the way that on several occasions including pretty recently Dana White and the UFC have stated that they had no interest in promoting womens MMA. Infact Dana White himself has openly said since annointing Rousey the champ and putting on this fight that this isn't about womens MMA, this is the Ronda Rousey show...

 

I didn't say that they created the 135lb division so she avoided Coenen, I was saying that they created a division for her and handed her a belt to ride the hype train and as such they have no intention of allowing that hype train to de-rail at it's first stop by creating competitive terms like a 140lb division or by handing her a more dangerous opponent in the 135lb division such as Coenen.

 

135lb and 145lb divisions in mens MMA are already widely established with the opportunity for slightly larger fighters to also cut down and challenge for the titles that the divisions aren't being specifically catered for one fighter so they make sense. The levels of ability and numbers of fighters in WMMA has such a small talent pool that if you make the womens division 140lb it allows for far more competition and would make for a far better division and talent pool as a whole but that doesn't suit Rousey and as I've pointed out and DW has said himself they're not promoting WMMA, they're promoting Ronda Rousey.

 

Let's remember that in the early days of mens MMA you didn't have 8 weight classes and one of the main reasons for that is that there weren't enough fighters at an elite level to facilitate it, when more weight classes were bought in it was for two reasons, firstly there was a far bigger talent pool and secondly to help create and protect more stars.

 

For what it's worth I absolutely don't agree with Aldo or Cruz having been handed a title belt without ever having fought under the UFC banner so if that's the point you're trying to make with regards to it being no different then you're right and it's all wrong.

 

If your argument is that as the womens champion in the 135lb of a different organisation she deserves to be annointed the 135lb womens champion once in the UFC then Ian McCall should have been the first UFC 125lb Champion and handed the belt when he came to the UFC from Tachi Palace Fights and they created the division. The reason they didn't is that UFC weren't interested in promoting Ian McCall, they were interested in promoting a mens 125lb division.

 

You can argue all you want that TPF isn't a Zuffa owned organisation but doing it wouldn't have made any less sense than with the Cruz, Aldo or Rousey and how many casual fans do you think know that WEC and Strikeforce were Zuffa owned by the end of their tenures?

 

If they're only handing these titles out to honour the achievements of these fighters in other Zuffa owned organisations and that's why they didn't do the same for McCall then Tarec Saffiedine and Luke Rockhold should have been given immediate unification matches. If that happens then I will hold my hands up, apologise and say that I was wrong but until then I stand by my point that the UFC picks and chooses when to hand someone a title.

 

UFC will do everything within their power to make Rousey look as good as they can, keep that belt on her for as long as they can and ride any good PR she creates into the mainstream.

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The UFC hasnt created a weight class specifically for Rousey, its the same weight class she fought in whilst she was in Strikeforce. The UFC has simply re-branded the Strikeforce 135lb division as the UFC 135lb division.

 

They've done it so she avoids fighters like Marlos Coenen? Coenen fought in the Strikeforce 135lb division! She held the belt until she was beaten by Meisha Tate.

 

The only name above 135lb worth even talking about is Cyborg and even though she dominated at 145lb she basically beat up blown up 135lbers because theres very few female fighters at 145. Everyones acting like Rousey's being given special treatment to protect her? Bollocks is she.

 

Its no different to the UFC moving the WEC's 135 and 145 divisions over and crowning Cruz and Aldo the UFC champs of them divisions.

It wouldn't have made more sense to create a division midway between 145lbs & 135lbs to allow fighters from both divisions the opportunity to fight at a healthy weight? Dana White has made it clear that it's the Rousey show. He has no real interest in promoting female MMA, and has said that for years now.

 

As has been mentioned, it'll be very interesting to see where it all goes if & when Rousey loses.

To allow who though exactly? Cyborg?

 

Why does every other female fighter have fight outside of their correct weight class to allow Cyborg to come in and fight with a significant size advantage. That was already made to happen in Strikeforce and we ended up seeing a string of uncompetitive mismatches.

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I read the comments underneath the article someone posted that Meltzer wrote, the one that Dana got angry at about the women's fight not being likely to draw. There are some proper cunts on there, talking about how it won't be interesting and that they'll probably switch off right before. Rousey sounds like a great asset for UFC, so I hope the PPV does good numbers. From what I've seen so far, MMA harcore fans are a bigger bunch of turds than RoHbots.

Henderson and Machida is the main event of this PPV for me, and I couldn't really give a fuck who wins the female bout (I'll watch it if I have time, but it's not a must-see for me). Until they develop a proper 140lbs division which will see the majority of decent female MMA talent able to compete fairly then I have no interest. This 135lbs deal has been done blatantly to keep Cyborg out of the picture. When you're picking weight limits in order to keep the most dominant female MMA fighter in history out of the equation the situation is a farce.

 

Truth be told, if Rousey looked like her opponent she probably wouldn't be getting the golden girl treatment. She's being pushed because she has a pretty face, blonde hair and a decent rack, simple as that. She's a tool to get the UFC onto mainstream magazine covers and the like.

 

I'm investing no time or effort into the division because I know as soon as she loses, it'll all disappear quick sharpish, so what's the point?

 

EDIT: In fact Wand, can you edit your poll and add a "who gives a fuck?" option to the main event choices? ;)

But Dave, doesn't hold any stock with you that Cyborg was gassed off her tits when she was dominating? Thats why i dont fully agree.with what your saying. If Cyborg was proven clean and they did this i'd be questioning the decision, but she didn't. It's Cyborg's fault.

 

I don't usually agree with a lot of what David says regarding MMA however on this occasion as exaggerated as his point is, I do agree.

 

The UFC has no interest in women's MMA whatsoever, they have an interest in money, success and free publicity. Ronda is a moderately attractive woman at best however when put in the class of women's MMA fighters she looks way more attractive than she is due to the unattractiveness of a large percentage of them and that creates attention because people don't expect to see attractive girls fighting.

 

Now fair enough looks alone aren't going to do it, she's less attractive than say Gina Carano and no more attractive than say Miesha Tate so you need to have a good story and a gimmick to really ride the hype train...both of which she has.

 

UFC have created a weight class and handed Rousey a title so they had no intention whatsoever of then having her fight Cyborg, or even someone like Coenen.

 

I think that writing Cyborg's achievements off due to (alleged) steroid use is hugely unfair as well, espescially when a very large percentage of UFC fighters have used or do use numerous PED's. Cyborg's main issue wasn't that she allegedly used steroids, it's that she was stupid enough to mis-time her cycles and get caught.

What the fuck are you on about?

 

The UFC hasnt created a weight class specifically for Rousey, its the same weight class she fought in whilst she was in Strikeforce. The UFC has simply re-branded the Strikeforce 135lb division as the UFC 135lb division.

 

They've done it so she avoids fighters like Marlos Coenen? Coenen fought in the Strikeforce 135lb division! She held the belt until she was beaten by Meisha Tate.

 

The only name above 135lb worth even talking about is Cyborg and even though she dominated at 145lb she basically beat up blown up 135lbers because theres very few female fighters at 145. Everyones acting like Rousey's being given special treatment to protect her? Bollocks is she.

 

Its no different to the UFC moving the WEC's 135 and 145 divisions over and crowning Cruz and Aldo the UFC champs of them divisions.

 

I think maybe I've worded what I was trying to say quite badly however your opening line is a bit of an over reaction.

 

The two should be seperate in the fact that they HAVE created a weight class or division specifically for Rousey in the way that on several occasions including pretty recently Dana White and the UFC have stated that they had no interest in promoting womens MMA. Infact Dana White himself has openly said since annointing Rousey the champ and putting on this fight that this isn't about womens MMA, this is the Ronda Rousey show...

 

I didn't say that they created the 135lb division so she avoided Coenen, I was saying that they created a division for her and handed her a belt to ride the hype train and as such they have no intention of allowing that hype train to de-rail at it's first stop by creating competitive terms like a 140lb division or by handing her a more dangerous opponent in the 135lb division such as Coenen.

 

135lb and 145lb divisions in mens MMA are already widely established with the opportunity for slightly larger fighters to also cut down and challenge for the titles that the divisions aren't being specifically catered for one fighter so they make sense. The levels of ability and numbers of fighters in WMMA has such a small talent pool that if you make the womens division 140lb it allows for far more competition and would make for a far better division and talent pool as a whole but that doesn't suit Rousey and as I've pointed out and DW has said himself they're not promoting WMMA, they're promoting Ronda Rousey.

 

Let's remember that in the early days of mens MMA you didn't have 8 weight classes and one of the main reasons for that is that there weren't enough fighters at an elite level to facilitate it, when more weight classes were bought in it was for two reasons, firstly there was a far bigger talent pool and secondly to help create and protect more stars.

 

For what it's worth I absolutely don't agree with Aldo or Cruz having been handed a title belt without ever having fought under the UFC banner so if that's the point you're trying to make with regards to it being no different then you're right and it's all wrong.

 

If your argument is that as the womens champion in the 135lb of a different organisation she deserves to be annointed the 135lb womens champion once in the UFC then Ian McCall should have been the first UFC 125lb Champion and handed the belt when he came to the UFC from Tachi Palace Fights and they created the division. The reason they didn't is that UFC weren't interested in promoting Ian McCall, they were interested in promoting a mens 125lb division.

 

You can argue all you want that TPF isn't a Zuffa owned organisation but doing it wouldn't have made any less sense than with the Cruz, Aldo or Rousey and how many casual fans do you think know that WEC and Strikeforce were Zuffa owned by the end of their tenures?

 

If they're only handing these titles out to honour the achievements of these fighters in other Zuffa owned organisations and that's why they didn't do the same for McCall then Tarec Saffiedine and Luke Rockhold should have been given immediate unification matches. If that happens then I will hold my hands up, apologise and say that I was wrong but until then I stand by my point that the UFC picks and chooses when to hand someone a title.

 

UFC will do everything within their power to make Rousey look as good as they can, keep that belt on her for as long as they can and ride any good PR she creates into tthe mainstream.

First off, Coenen isnt even with Zuffa anymore...and Carmouche was probably gonna be next in line even if this fight took place in Strikeforce...again, this woman isn't a scrub/can, its a legit challenger.

 

As for the belts, Cruz and Aldo were crowned UFC champs because they basically shifted the entire WEC divisiom over into the UFC where there was no division. It wasn't ideal when the heavier weight classes were moved over and were made to fight their way to then to the title but i think the UFC did the best they could in a bit of a unique situation.

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To allow who though exactly? Cyborg?

Considering she's the undisputed queen of female MMA (regardless of the UFC handing Rousey a belt), hasn't lost a bout in almost eight years and has won eight of her ten wins via stoppage, Yes. You have to make allowances for that. Not to is simply ridiculous.

 

Why does every other female fighter have fight outside of their correct weight class to allow Cyborg to come in and fight with a significant size advantage. That was already made to happen in Strikeforce and we ended up seeing a string of uncompetitive mismatches.

Rousey's never fought above 135lbs, no? She wouldn't be competitive at 140lbs?

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Ultimately, if you have a problem with the fight (or female MMA), simply turn off the show before the main event. It aint like the UFC have shortchanged anyone by putting a female fighter on top, the cards still stacked top to bottom.

 

Considering the quality and excitement the females generated in Strikeforce last year it blows my mind that any MMA fan is moaning about this.

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But I personally believe she is.

Until she beats Cybrog she isn't, it's as simple as that. She may be considered so in the world of Dana White and the UFC and in the eyes of the casual fan or those who swallow the nonsense that the UFC gives us, and what Dana says at his media scrums, but in reality she isn't.

 

You say you do not care about the Main Dave, but you are spending a lot of time discussing who is involved in it.

I'm discussing female MMA in general. The main event will answer no questions as far as I'm concerned, regardless of how it finishes. Until Rousey, or someone else, beats Cyborg they simply aren't #1 in female MMA.

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I think it is a debatable point who is better out of Cyborg and Ronda. If you look at both there records they both have faced similar levels of. competition. Plus, Cyborg has the blemish of being busted for PED's as well. Neither have shown much weakness, Ronda has suspect stand-up and Cyborg's cardio is also suspect.

 

Its pretty much subjective who is the best right now.

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