jimufctna24 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Liddell would have done ok, he has an ageless style, solid takedown defence and razor sharp, heavy handed counter striking will always be effective. The question I struggle to answer with Chuck is would his striking style stand up today with MMA striking becoming more refined by the year. We never saw the prime version of Liddel against a striker who was refined.  I class his prime from 2004-2006 before the wheels fell off going into the Rampage fight, who did he face at his peak.  Tito x2 Randy x2 Horn Babulu Vernon White  None of which I would call refined in the striking department.  That said Hendo is still about doing very well and he is hardly a technical marvel. And Glover is doing very well being built in his image (striking wise) so I could see it.  I agree with Saku 100% Its a shame because of other than Frank Shamrock he may have been the most well rounded fighter of the late 90's and early 00's.  Tito believes the 2001 version of him would adapt to today's methods and compete at the top. I say that would not happen as much as I love him, he never seemed to adapt to the striking game throughout the years, he was always very basic and flatfooted. He could have been a beast with his wrestling as his injuries did effect him, but he would not enjoy the size advantage he had in his glory years with today's crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think that Ken Shamrock would have been a reasonable force if he were in his mid to late 20's today. The guy was nothing if he wasn't a real student of the game back in the day, using submission fighting techniques back when no one outside of Brazil & Japan had ever heard of them. Â He was also a good athlete in his younger years. Throw that together with a willingness to learn, and the fact he was as mental & charismatic as they come and he could have been potentially a huge star in this era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted January 22, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 Yeh its a shame Ken's gone on to tarnish his reputation and become somewhat of laughing stock in recent years (though some of it is sadly deserved), dude was a true pioneer of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted January 22, 2013 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 Ken had moments where he looked great even post WWF. The Fujita fight especially he was handing Fujita his arse. Probably the best Ken ever looked in the striking. One of his best performances and then he just quit the fight which I always found really bizarre. Usually when a guy quits he's losing, Ken called for a fight he was winning to be stopped. I don't think I've seen that happen before or since. Â It's a shame because I do think he could have done more in his career and it's a shame that he'll be largely forgotten as a result of the disputes he's had with the current UFC owners. Â If a guy like Ken was in his 20s today, with the level of training available and the better understanding of nutrition and what works and what doesn't in MMA, he could do well. But then we could say that about a lot of guys. Imagine a young AKA trained Mark Coleman today? Or a young Don Frye trained in all areas of MMA? Bas Rutten? Maurice Smith? I wish we had a time machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 If a guy like Ken was in his 20s today, with the level of training available and the better understanding of nutrition and what works and what doesn't in MMA, he could do well. But then we could say that about a lot of guys. Imagine a young AKA trained Mark Coleman today? Or a young Don Frye trained in all areas of MMA? Bas Rutten? Maurice Smith? I wish we had a time machine. I think the general consensus is that guys who were great athletes and fighters back in the 90's & 2000's would be great athletes and fighters nowadays as well if they were in their prime and had access to the training that todays fighters do. Â Only novelty "tough guy" characters like Tank Abbott would find it difficult if they were in their prime today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted January 22, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 Ken had moments where he looked great even post WWF. The Fujita fight especially he was handing Fujita his arse. Probably the best Ken ever looked in the striking. One of his best performances and then he just quit the fight which I always found really bizarre. Usually when a guy quits he's losing, Ken called for a fight he was winning to be stopped. I don't think I've seen that happen before or since. Ken did look great that night, he had Fujita rocked when it was damn near impossible to hurt him. The reason Ken quit that night was cause he thought he was having a heart attack in the ring, turned out to just be palpatatipns (sp?), but Ken thought he was about to drop dead (this was when Ken was juiced off his nut too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted January 22, 2013 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 Really? I'd never heard Ken's reasons for that before so cheers. Yeah, Ken was ridiculously big around that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I don't want to condone Steroid use, but with his sideburns in Pride, Ken looked cool as fuck. Â I am not sure he would do well today if he was young, he seemed to have the "my way or the highway approach" as MMA's landscape evolves so quickly, I think he would be left behind no matter what era he was in. Nothing physical just his attitude and lack of I.Q. Â Look at what Frank Shamrock became when he left Lions Den and found new methods to improve. Ken even in 2006 was unwilling to change anything up, just watch TUF 3. Â If I could have one guy in a time machine it would be 20 year old Brock Lesnar, all the athletic gifts and no illness to hold him back. Plus, bags of time to train him up. I would not mind a 20 year old BJ Penn also. I know their attitudes were as faulty as Ken's at times, but I am going on pure talent and of the past fighters those two are the ones who stick out to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Egg Shen Posted January 22, 2013 Paid Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 Really? I'd never heard Ken's reasons for that before so cheers. Yeah, Ken was ridiculously big around that time. from wiki: Â However, he eventually had his corner throw in the towel because he felt like he was having a heart attack, ending an exciting fight in anticlimactic fashion. He was evaluated after the fight and it was determined that he was suffering from heart palpitations. Shamrock talked about what happened to him in an interview: "I'm not sure, even to this day, I'm not sure. Everything went white and I couldn't see. My heart felt like it was pounding through my chest. I'm not quite sure what happened. I couldn't control my vision, my balance, I don't know what was wrong with me. I was going through a lot just then, I was going through a divorce and my 4 kids were dropped off on me in a two bedroom apartment, so I didn't get to train properly for the fight. There was a lot going on in my life at the time and I think that there was a whole bunch of stress built up on me and it came out when I didn't want it to."[36] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimufctna24 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 There was a massive rumor that did the rounds he had a cocaine problem at this point as well. He also battered Mark Hall in a casino a bit before this for slagging of his then wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members wandshogun09 Posted January 22, 2013 Author Paid Members Share Posted January 22, 2013 Oh yeah, I heard the Hall casino story. Thanks for the info Ebb. It's amazing the little bits you still find out years later as a fight fan. I'd always wondered about what happened with Ken-Fujita but obviously not enough to actually look it up I guess I suppose I just put it down to Ken mentally checking out. Â Sounds scary. I guess steroids, the stress of his divorce etc all contributed. Could have been tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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