Monday Night Raw Discussion 11/11/12

[Dazz]

For years and years people have been bleeting on about wanting an edgier product

 

Who has? The general feeling on here is normally that edgy doesn't matter and that things that are interesting and make sense do.

 

 

Maybe not here, but, there's a distinct divide in the Pro PG and Anti PG/Bring back ediger risky content fanbases of WWE.

 

I am of the mind that I'd like a riskier product, as the watered down PG stuff appeals to me less and less sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I still like a lot of what WWE do, but, I'm not their target market but would like something a bit more geared to me.

[Shane O' Mac Version 2]

Watched the show live and spoiler free, and it really lacked in unpredictability. The big "shocking moment" was the Lawler/Punk angle, but I could see it coming a mile away. It's WWE and Lawler, they never miss an opportunity to exploit a situation if they think it will parlay into some kind of gain. Look at how Lawler's parents were used in the Michael Cole feud. I was a little surprised at Punk's, "I'll beat you to death" comment, but I thought his overall performance as a heel was fantastic, I really wanted to see Lawler deliver just one punch or a piledriver to Punk. Didn't like the whole bit with Heyman faking a heart attack, not because I was offended but because it just seemed too much to pile on, like that bit was just Punk and Heyman trying too hard to be offensive without actually seeming like real pricks. Like when a schoolkid acts out just craving attention. I get that attention craving is part of Punk's character, but it just seemed like they were trying too hard to draw heat with that bit.

 

The Vickie/AJ/Cena situation is an eye-roller. They're trying to make out that Cena and AJ had some big affair... last I checked, neither Cena nor AJ are married, storyline or otherwise. I don't see why they have to be so vehement about it, they could just say, "We didn't, but so what if we did?" Vickie also needs more compelling fake evidence than doctored voice messages.

 

Another predictable element was Miz joining Team Foley, it was fairly apparent from the opening of the backstage segment with Ziggler. That was one of the show's biggest selling points, and they delivered by the numbers. Same with the Ryback/Maddox match. Prevailing wisdom prevailed without a hiccup, Maddox really has nothing to come back with.

 

The wrestling highlight was probably the 8 man tag. Not a whole lot of substance to the show overall, just really consolidating the feuds in place for Survivor Series.

[air_raid]

I think I missed something last week : what was the explanation for Barrett replacing Miz on Team Ziggler?

 

Hearing massive rumours for the The Rock V Undertaker at Mania this year!!!!!

 

Source???

 

Not a dogs chance in hell. In fact, I'm "hearing" that Undertaker won't be in the card this year at all because he's so banged up and would rather be 100% for WMXXX. Hearing it from my mate in the pub, that is.

[Sheffbag]

Decent show overall I thought, a massive improvement on last week for sure.

 

I wasn't hugely offended by the Punk/Lawler/Heyman segment, although I can see why other people are offended by it. Obviously Lawler obviously felt it was fine to exploit it for heat for the company's top heel, and I didn't have a massive problem with that. Perhaps the vignette could have been better handled though, maybe without the footage of the defibrillator.

 

On an aside, going into Survivor series, I really do see them taking the belt off Punk on Sunday, whether they put it back on him before the rumble, who knows, but I can definitely see them making a big deal of it being 364 days, but not a year.

ah but its a leap year so if he does retain will they swerve him on the Raw after when he's proclaiming that he has held it a year. Vinnie Mac comes out makes him defend agaisnt a returning Shane O Mac so he didnt make 366 days?

[King Pitcos]

I think I missed something last week : what was the explanation for Barrett replacing Miz on Team Ziggler?

It was still Team Punk when it happened. Miz quit for no particular reason, and Heyman offered Barrett his spot.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I thought the Lawler angle was disgusting personally. Not because it was offensive, but because it was such a desperate and uncreative attempt at trying to create interest. Sums the promotion up these days. They are completely out of ideas. Cheap heat at its worst.

[ColinBollocks]

I agree with Ian's assessment of the Lawler angle. I wouldn't say it was disgusting (Lawler was up for it), but definitely desperate. They should have just kept it at Punk interrupting Lawler and doing a bit of a promo, because that Heyman heart attack stuff was brutal. When it was happening it reminded me of the dark days of 2002/03 when WWE did as much tasteless rubbish as possible, because they were desperate to be "edgy". Lawler's payback better be good.

[Smegma Cake]

The PG/Edgy content is bullshit anyway. You don't want edgier television, you don't want PG television. You want better television. You can have better television in a PG format or a non PG format, you're just not getting it at the moment.

 

For me, personally? I wasn't offended by the Heyman heart attack segment, I've seen them do worse and even stupider angles to try draw heat. If I was offended by anything it was not only the decision to air so much footage of Lawler being given treatment post heart attack, but also the decision they made to film it while it was happening. You can hear the doctor(s) call for anyone who doesn't need to be there to leave, yet the cameras continue to film all the way up to the ambulance.

 

That to me screamed edgier content, showing a potentially dying mans last breath...but it doesn't mean it was better television. Not at all.

 

EDIT : Also if Miz doesn't screw over the babyfaces at Survivor Series, I'd be heavily surprised.

[Magnum]

Just watched the Lawler angle on youtube. I'm not sure this will be a fashionable opinion on here these days, but I think CM Punk is a fantastic heel. That's not to say anything about his drawing power or ability to main event Wrestlemania or anything like that, but I think he plays a dickhead better and more compellingly than anybody else among the current lot. He exudes that classic wrestling heel air of being a mouthy little cunt who the average adult fan would be fairly confident of kicking the shit out of, but with just enough of a convincing vicious streak that makes them think twice about trying. He might not be a particularly good draw, but more than just about anyone outside of the old school stars, his segments are the ones that have created enough of a buzz around them to make me look them up. The only others I've done that for in recent years are The Rock and Brock Lesnar, and I'm someone who barely gave a fuck about CM Punk before the MITB push last year.

 

As for the angle, I'm not personally offended by it. I wonder about Lawler's own hand in it - some of the stuff that got him over as such a great heel in his early WWF days was very reality-based and near the knuckle for the time, such as taking the piss of Stu Hart's age and Jake Roberts' alcoholism. It wasn't a particularly innovative or clever angle in itself, but it was effective for me in furthering the impression of Punk and Heyman as a pair of disrespectful dickheads. Mick Foley just gets worse and worse, though. It's a pity, because I think these two could have done some tremendous promo work together before Foley became a self-parody.

[FUM]

I feel like a complete cunt but I found the Punk/Heyman/Lawler segment fucking hilarious.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

7 Years ago today, Eddie Guerrero died of a heart attack. I'm shocked they didn't drive out in his low rider to be honest. There might be still juice left in that.

 

Wrestling has no credibility anyway, so this angle won't cause any hassle. Vince must have taken notes when they polled his home state a few weeks back and only 6% said they didn't find wrestling ridiculous and embarrassing.

[Forrest]

I thought the Lawler angle was disgusting personally. Not because it was offensive, but because it was such a desperate and uncreative attempt at trying to create interest. Sums the promotion up these days. They are completely out of ideas. Cheap heat at its worst.

 

Ian has summed up that angle perfectly. Punk is shite, and his title reign has been shite in the sense that while the matches are rather good, there is absolutely nothing behind them (for example, the rotten Jericho "PUNK, YOU WENT TO THE PUB! YOU HAVE BROKEN STRAIGHT EDGE!" stuff). This just reeked of desperation. The fact he has to have henchmen fake heart attacks and take pops at the troops to get any sort of heat is pathetic and I am incredibly bored of him now. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought the Lawler vignette was tasteless either. Whoever let that get on screen needs to take a hard look at themselves.

 

That said, I did enjoy the Ryback squash with the ambulances and the EMTs coming to the ring, intimidating Maddox. It was the perfect way to put Ryback over.

 

Survivor Series can go fuck itself though. I'm already paying a hundred quid a month for Virgin Media, so if WWE think they can get me to part with another 15 quid on the basis of this shite, they can beat it. I usually always buy SBO PPVs, but this one's getting streamed.

[Arch Stanton]

I wasn't offended by the Lawler segment, because I'm not easily shocked or offended anyway, but it was tiresome and desperate. Given that Jerry's recovery is a real life happy ending to a what would have been an absolutely horrifying story, wouldn't it have just been nice to have had a genuine feel-good moment between Jerry and the fans?

[Joey Joe Joe Jr]

I just expected something a bit more creative with something Punk and Heyman involved.

[METAL ON METAL]

JBL posted a little about the Punk/Heyman thing on Raw, what with today being the anniversary of Eddie's death:

 

I've written a lot about Eddie Guerrero and I never get tired of talking about my friend, this is the 7th anniversary of his passing.

 

Eddie was a groomsman in my wedding and I did part of his eulogy at his funeral, we were good friends-I really miss Eddie and so wish he were still around. We had so much fun together, and he meant more to my success than anyone.

 

The JBL character wasn't working and Eddie and Chavo Sr came up with the idea for the 'heart attack' of his mother on Mother's Day in his hometown of El Paso. I literally had a police escort out of town for my own safety that night, talk about heat.

 

This angle with CM Punk and Heyman faking a heart attack last night, I loved it-this is something Eddie would have loved also. People get worked up, and it is their choice to be offended by whatever they choose. I thought it was awesome, I just wish JBL could have done it!

 

Eddie did as much for me personally as he did professionally, he was a truly amazing guy.

 

The story of Chavo and Eddie getting into a heated argument backstage over the mother angle when Chavo started ribbing Eddie that Mrs Guerrero should take the clothesline was hilarious-it's just that no one saw it but me.

 

The match we had at Judgement Day set the attendance record at the Staples Center at the time, all off the heart attack angle. Again, if you are offended by the CM Punk story-it's your choice, but I got a guy wishing I was dead and several profanity filled Tweets over it. Really? Over a TV show, some have zero class when they can be keyboard warriors anonymously.

 

Also, the filming of Jerry as he was receiving medical care got some really nasty comments. If that was an NFL game or any event that had a ton of cameras around, do you think that a guy who has been told to film everything who has a camera on his shoulder would not film it. I thought it was all done very well and was one of the best Raws I have seen in some time.

 

I thought the welcome back of Jerry was great, I love Jerry and he is one of the best of all time. A true Hall of Famer. We share a birthday though his year is many decades ahead of me.

 

Here's highlights of the Judgement Day bloodbath, Eddie had to be taken to the hospital after this-I didn't realize at the time how much blood he was losing. Seeing the tape I am shocked.

 

I miss Eddie, would be great to have him around now after all these years and laugh and talk.