Paid Members Devon Malcolm Posted September 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 Personally I think all women's wrestling should be banned until they all stop throwing those fucking terrible forearms. Â And the handspring elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Yeah, I get what you are saying, Vamp. Â Until it's treated like a serious thing it can never become one. The lack of raw talent is a proper issue though. It's bad enough in the men's ranks, with most young athletes picking mma over wrestling these days (or being even more sensible and saying "fuck that" to both options). The amount of talented women coming through is even worse than the blokes! Â Still... Miss Tessmacher is on TV most weeks - so who gives a shit about anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The Women's title has had more Raw/SmackDown main events than the Cruiserweight title, hasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The other reality is economic. How many female wrestlers have ever notably effected tv ratings or PPV buys, and if so why? I know that Trish was popular with tv viewers, but was there ever a PPV which could point to her being a bona-fide draw? Â The only evidence I've ever seen is when TNA first started the Knockouts division, and particularly showcased Kim v Kong, their matches and segments were regularly getting the top ratings for the show. There was even talk of spinning off a Knockouts show at that point. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Eddie Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The other reality is economic. How many female wrestlers have ever notably effected tv ratings or PPV buys, and if so why? I know that Trish was popular with tv viewers, but was there ever a PPV which could point to her being a bona-fide draw? The only evidence I've ever seen is when TNA first started the Knockouts division, and particularly showcased Kim v Kong, their matches and segments were regularly getting the top ratings for the show. There was even talk of spinning off a Knockouts show at that point.   While probably not TV ratings draws, I can imagine that WWE made a lot of money off of merch from the likes of Lita, Sable and Chyna. All three had t-shirts, calenders and videos on the market that sold well.  Basically any type of "over" act is worth having, whether it's woman, tag teams or singles wrestlers. I imagine that Sunny, Sable, The Hardys and The Dudleys were all out selling much of the singles wrestlers (bar the top blokes) back in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Duke Posted September 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 Really enjoyed that post Vamp, interesting stuff. Although you lose points for spelling fantasy "phantasy", you bastard. Â Butch's extreme example aside (in general, men and women are not equal physically, obviously with exceptions, Beth Phoenix could probably beat the piss out of Kendrick), I think the women are presented a lot better than they have been, even their attire is a lot less blatant than it was (it's far from perfect, and their hiring policy obviously isn't right, but it's more athletic and less skimpy than it was) but I just think Vince doesn't think they'll ever draw anything, so they get treated like the tag team division, or how the cruiser's were. I don't know if it's inherent sexism (although that seems to be clearly present) so much as if Vince doesn't care, it won't get focused on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 19, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted September 19, 2012 Even when Trish Stratus and Victoria were working decent matches on Raw, look who the biggest women stars were? Torrie, Sable and Stacy Keibler. WWE have always focus more on tits and arse. Its what sells in wrestling. Even the big womens wrestling fans wouldnt be into it if it was all Sweaty Bettys rolling about. Â Generally womens wrestling is quite poor and every woman has a shelf life. Kelly Kelly has probably had the longest shelf life. Sable, Sunny, Stacy, Torrie and a load of others only had a few years. Even Trish had 6 years. Kelly Kelly has been around as long as Trish, amazingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Really enjoyed that post Vamp, interesting stuff. Although you lose points for spelling fantasy "phantasy", you bastard. Â Oh God! Phantasy and Butch. mentioning Mulvey. I'm having a bad flashback to my uni days. I think that to some extent then yes women's wrestling is equated to having too be lookedatness and not drive a narrative particularly or be in control. However that self same thing can be attributed to male workers. I've seen rather, I know women who watch and go to wrestling purely to perv over the men , it's got faff all to do with work rate or even being a rat, it's a case of the whole kinda stripper phenomenon, so it works both ways. Â Women's wrestling isnt for me, it never has been really. I dont get the appeal of women battering the snot out of each other in the same way that I do with men battering the snot out of each other. That's probably down to socialisation and conditioning, but something never sits right. I can appreciate their efforts and what they do, but I dont find it sexy nor do I find it alluring to see that, it's just something that is there. Â As for being an afterthought or whatever, they have to go with what sells, few women have had a chance to crack the hegemony, namely Chyna and Karma, but then the male traits they exhibited could have helped their downfall by drawing them into a male world rather than setting them apart. In Chyna's case, Ego (massive contract demands iirc) and a self destructive streak meant that her fall from grace was spectacular. Â I think it's one of those cases where by men and women cant generally co-exist in the ring, the women's matches could be promoted or used better for sure, but as long as people have eyes and a mind, people are always going to look at it as eye candy, no matter how good they are due to the way people are conditioned to objectify women for sexual pleasure ditto, women objectifying men for sexual pleasure. That women have out fits that are provocative is again something linked into that. Men wear shorts or trunks or singlets and generally exhibit their sexualisation as a position of trying to be alpha or whatever. Women's costumes mirror that, playing up to the fact they are the 'perfect specimens' of a sort ( I think Victoria's initial run playing up on that when she was stalking Trish? because of her looks iirc is the closest we have got to that issue being addressed) even if women were wearing full body suits though they would still be objectified in the long run by some people. Â The solution is to keep presenting good wrestling and see if people can change their perceptions, whether they can or not is a different matter/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stately Wayne Manor Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm still trying to recover from Madusa being thrown in with butch gym teacher types!!! Â Otherwise, what it really boils down to is a load of Catch-22 and self-fulfilling prophecies. If the women aren't booked with equality to the men--because those in charge are either chauvinists or close-minded--they have no chance of catching up, as far as getting due respect from the fan base, match positioning, etc.. Nor does a woman have much chance of making exceptional money, in which case, the number of women who are going to take a shot at making a career out of wrestling diminishes. Â The closer the average female wrestling salary is to what the average "fitness model" makes, the lower the odds of another combination of beauty and athleticism like Lisa "Tara" Varon thinking its worth the bumps and bruises. So you get what's basically the "leftovers." And the downward spiral continues. Â The analogy with cruisers is okay but not a real lock. Yes, if the boss treats the division as a joke it's not going to have much chance of righting itself. But there are the Bryans and Arieses proving a smaller guy has a real chance of getting the big push on occasion, a level of push no women (under current circumstances) is ever going to receive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamond_dust Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Wrestling in general depends how its booked and womens wrestling is no exception. I can happily sit through a few hours of SHIMMER and the Cheerleader Melissa/MsChif feud in the early days was pretty entertaining. So WWE hired bimbos who couldn't do a simple move. There was also a Khali/Cena feud so should we assume all mens wrestling is shit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Weathers Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm still trying to recover from Madusa being thrown in with butch gym teacher types!!!  Dude she looks like Suzi Quatro's mum  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted September 19, 2012 Moderators Share Posted September 19, 2012 There was also a Khali/Cena feud so should we assume all mens wrestling is shit? Â No, because Cena is actually really, really, really, really good and got a more than acceptable match out of Khali. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamtheman Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 He got two out of him for me. Consecutive pay per views in 2007 i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 20, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted September 20, 2012 Here's as good a place to post this as any: WWE Diva Elizabeth Carolan, a.k.a Beth Phoenix, is reportedly finishing up with the company shortly. According to a source, Phoenix will be retiring in October. Phoenix made her WWE debut in 2006 as an ally to Trish Stratus during her feud with Mickie James. She would go on to hold the WWE Women's Championship three times, as well as the WWE Diva's Championship..  Phoenix was en route to displacing Maryse Ouellet as the longest reigning WWE Divas Champion in history earlier this year, however lost the belt a week before she could break the record to Nikki Bella on the April 23rd episode of Raw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stately Wayne Manor Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I'm still trying to recover from Madusa being thrown in with butch gym teacher types!!!  Dude she looks like Suzi Quatro's mum    Wait, she's got a face?!? LMAO--although she'd probably run me over with her monster truck if she knew I posted that.  Okay, maybe she doesn't look her finest ever in that photo, but I'm certain there are also some shots of her floating around where she looks way hot. Plus, I've seen her "in person"--and I mean from inches away, not an arena seat--and she sure looked damned delicious, IMO. She's always been real nice to me personally, so maybe I have a bias, but I imagine there are plenty of others who recall her with lust in their hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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