Random thoughts thread v2 *NO NEWS ITEMS*

[IANdrewDiceClay]

On a completely unrelated note, I dont think anyone has ever looked harder in wrestling, boxing and MMA than Ken Shamrock looked walking out into the car park for his Iron Circle match with Steve Blackman. I just watched it and thought "I wouldn't want to be him". WWE should do that match again with someone. Its not like the match was any good. Its just looked so unique with the dark setting and the cars lights flashing and the peanut gallery of wrestlers shouting stuff as they brawled. They should have done that with Ryback and someone when he was over. Its a great way to shine a light on someone for being double hard. You could have had Ryback maul someone. It would have been better than squashing Curt Hawkins every week.

 

TNA did one with Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett about 18 months back which was also pretty great.

Edited December 1, 2013 by IANdrewDiceClay

[King Pitcos]

When did they last do a car park match? The last one I remember is Eddie Guerrero vs John Cena, but there must have been a good few since then.

[Callum1993]

It's Triple H what do you expect?

Wise words, and only ten years old!

 

Ten years or not it's still apt!

[LaGoosh]

Wasn't JBL in one against somebody? I'm thinking maybe Cena...

 

I love creative matches like that, they should pull them out more often. Really gives some flavor to feuds.

[Maverick]

Didn't Flair and Jericho have a non sanctioned car park fight after Flair retired?

[jm29195]

Didn't Flair and Jericho have a non sanctioned car park fight after Flair retired?

 

 

That was Flair and Orton I think, in 2008...

[jm29195]

On a completely unrelated note, I dont think anyone has ever looked harder in wrestling, boxing and MMA than Ken Shamrock looked walking out into the car park for his Iron Circle match with Steve Blackman. I just watched it and thought "I wouldn't want to be him". WWE should do that match again with someone. Its not like the match was any good. Its just looked so unique with the dark setting and the cars lights flashing and the peanut gallery of wrestlers shouting stuff as they brawled. They should have done that with Ryback and someone when he was over. Its a great way to shine a light on someone for being double hard. You could have had Ryback maul someone. It would have been better than squashing Curt Hawkins every week.

 

TNA did one with Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett about 18 months back which was also pretty great.

 

Does Finlay/Regal from Nitro in 1996 count as one of these? Amazing stuff!

[King Pitcos]

Didn't Flair and Jericho have a non sanctioned car park fight after Flair retired?

 

 

That was Flair and Orton I think, in 2008...

Was there one with Orton as well? Flair and Jericho definitely had a pseudo-match during Jericho's legend killer phase.

[insert_name_here]

JBL and Cena had one at The Bash 2008 which was a bit of a let-down imo, it was also ruined by a piss weak finish

[Dirty Eddie]

Dusty Rhodes in 2013 is Stone Cold Steve Austin in 1998!

Let's see him do a stunner then, Eddie.

Good job avoiding the point I was making and changing the argument. Your debating skills are as sharp as ever.

 

The point was that Wrestlemania isn't the only place that the Authority should show weakness. Do you actually think that months on end of the Authority shitting on the whole roster is fine if they put one person over well at 'Mania? Seems counter-productive to me and very short-sighted.

[UK Kat Von D]

Things moved a lot faster during the attitude era, these days people do expect the big payoffs at Wrestlemania. Dusty putting his hand in Steph's face is hardly a big payoff though.

 

I don't see a clear right and wrong between Dusty and Steph. WWE Have to expect veterans to go off script a little because they spent their entire career's working without one and most of them are a bit mental. However it's not Dusty's place to do anything that might fuck up his sons' biggest storyline in years. He probably didn't think much of it at the time, but should have grovelled afterwards to protect his sons' careers. Which is a funny example of life imitating art

[King Pitcos]

Good job avoiding the point I was making and changing the argument. Your debating skills are as sharp as ever.

Sorry for embarrassing you, 03ddie.

 

The point was that Wrestlemania isn't the only place that the Authority should show weakness. Do you actually think that months on end of the Authority shitting on the whole roster is fine if they put one person over well at 'Mania?

As opposed to them doing even-steven one-upmanship with Big Show and John Cena for the next six months? Yeah, it's fine. WWE could do with a big heel power getting its comeuppance at WrestleMania when it means something. And it means more if the smaller roles play their victim parts properly instead of trying to get themselves over at the expense of the story the company's telling.

 

Of course, the "shitting on the whole roster" thing is nonsense anyway because there have been moments that have gone both ways. Big Show got the better of the Authority multiple times in his firing/rehiring storyline, Daniel Bryan knocked Triple H out with one knee, and Cody Rhodes and Goldust have still got the tag titles they won from the Authority's team. Bryan and maybe Orton are really the only ones who are in a worse position now than they were on the Raw before SummerSlam, and that's arguable in Orton's case. Sandow too, I suppose, because of the lack of follow-up on his Cena match, but that's nothing to do with the McMahon storyline.

 

Edited December 1, 2013 by King Pitcos

[Dirty Eddie]

As opposed to them doing even-steven one-upmanship with Big Show and John Cena for the next six months? Yeah, it's fine. WWE could do with a big heel power getting its comeuppance at WrestleMania when it means something. And it means more if the smaller roles play their victim parts properly instead of trying to get themselves over at the expense of the story the company's telling.

 

Of course, the "shitting on the whole roster" thing is nonsense anyway because there have been moments that have gone both ways. Big Show got the better of the Authority multiple times in his firing/rehiring storyline, Daniel Bryan knocked Triple H out with one knee, and Cody Rhodes and Goldust have still got the tag titles they won from the Authority's team. Bryan and maybe Orton are really the only ones who are in a worse position now than they were on the Raw before SummerSlam, and that's arguable in Orton's case. Sandow too, I suppose, because of the lack of follow-up on his Cena match, but that's nothing to do with the McMahon storyline.

As for the first bit in bold - why do you assume that the opposite of "never showing any weakness" is "even-steven one-upmanship"?

 

No-one wants that either, but Steph has literally not had a single moment of looking weak that I can recall. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in thinking the recent story has turned out to be pretty shitty for most involved. They've taken the red hot heat Bryan had and sucked much of it dry - before sending him back into the upper-midcard. Orton is a paper Champion, Big Show is that bloke that cried for a month and then got an incredibly lukewarm reception (and boring chants) during his big title match on PPV. Triple H has built himself loads of lovely heat, but he doesn't need it. His matches are super rare these days so he's a special attraction whatever. This could have been used to try and push Orton over the top as a proper hated heel, but instead he's been shown up as mostly inept and in constant need of help.

 

Those segments where most of the roster had to stand on the ramp like pussies while Steph and Triple H dressed them down just made them all look like chumps. They've also been big on pushing the idea that if you get fired from WWE your life is over. There's naff-all out there for silly rasslers without WWE behind you, so you better not get fired. That just makes everyone seem like a loser. Wrestlers should be presented as big stars with money in the bank, big houses and a level of fame (regardless of if it's true). Don't tell your audience that without WWE behind them, your roster would be collecting dole money or parking cars somewhere.

 

I really liked where it looked to be heading the night Bryan beat Cena and HHH and Orton fucked him over for the belt, but instead of following that up with a red-hot chase for revenge, they've dicked Bryan out of all his matches and humiliated Big Show in successive PPV main events. The whole story has become boring.

 

I think the Rhodes boys are the only ones to have really benefited so far. Uso's too, just for being more involved in relevant stuff.

[Bettencourt]

I hear Mikey Whiplash has been severely injured at tonight's ICW show. Match has been stopped and Grado used part of his singlet as a bandage. Apparently quite a nasty cut on Whiplash's leg. Hope it's not as bad as reported.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Bettencourt

[King Pitcos]

As for the first bit in bold - why do you assume that the opposite of "never showing any weakness" is "even-steven one-upmanship"?

Partly because I've watched WWE this year, and they'll resort to even-steven booking any time an act isn't being pushed very strongly.

 

And partly because if you're not happy with occasional babyface victories over them that have already been happening, then what's the magic number of how often you do think the big boss baddies should be getting defeated and humiliated? Should they bend over for every Tom, Dick and Mongol with a backstage pass? In the context of this Dusty Rhodes discussion, they were doing a scene where they were demonstrating how evil they were bullying an old man into a terrible position choosing which of his sons was allowed a job. "Talk to the hand, thithter" doesn't sell that idea brilliantly.

 

Triple H and Stephanie are not Vickie Guerrero and Brad Maddox, nor should wrestlers react to them in the same way. You can't book a Super Mega Turbo Powerful Evil Authority Figure the same way you book the common-or-garden evil authority figures. When you decide to do the Triple H and Stephanie evil owners storyline, you can't just fuck it off two weeks later and have Santino chasing them with the Cobra and Khali beating them in dance contests. They are above that, they are smarter, more intimidating and more resourceful than the likes of Vickie.

 

The core problem is that WWE came out of SummerSlam needing to get two opposing things over, and nobody involved was clever enough or talented enough to pull that off. Much like with Punk and Ryback last year, they stuck to the original plan rather than capitalising on the organic new babyface momentum. The difference being that while they were happy to just completely fuck Ryback and keep Punk strong, they tried to soften the blow for Bryan too much with shitty non-finishes (which didn't protect Bryan anyway) and ended up fucking Randy Orton as a result.

Edited December 1, 2013 by King Pitcos