Van Dammer Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Ian, Before your edit, you said the WWE can make people credible wrestlers, they just choose not to. There's been lots of banging on that CM Punk is a piss poor champ and not credible in the slightest. Is that his fault or theirs? Well, Simon, its his fault because they have pushed him to the moon and he has significant say in his promos and angles. He's got the belt. He has 20 minutes a week to speak or wrestle, and it doesn't translate at the box office. Â I'm not talking about people who are in main event positions who the fans won't accept because they are unlikable bag eyed homeless looking people. I'm talking about people who are at a certain level and will stay there forever because they aren't given the chance to come across as anything but complete losers. Â What has translated to the box office in say the last ten years? PPV buys have been on a steady decline for almost all of that period and nobody in that time has offered any more than a very short term spike to that trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted June 21, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted June 21, 2012 What has translated to the box office in say the last ten years? PPV buys have been on a steady decline for almost all of that period and nobody in that time has offered any more than a very short term spike to that trend. Yes they have. Jeff Hardy, Edge, Randy Orton, Batista, Nexus were drawing far more interest on the road and on TV than CM Punk was as champion. Sure, they weren't a Austin or a Rock, but nobody is asking CM Punk to be Austin or Rock. They just want him to be in segments consistently where he isn't losing hundreds of thousands of viewers. Its unheard of for a babyface to have this kind of negative effect on business. Business has been on the downturn for years, but the big decline, which has resulted in the lowest television ratings in 15 years has come during a time when CM Punk is holding the belt, and usually with him in the lowest viewed segment. Â If you want to get into this shit argument, there's plenty of redundant threads where this has been done over and over again. The fact is, he's killed the belt, because the writers and Vince McMahon have just kept it on him and kept him away from important time slots and PPV main events, because he is a detriment to the product as far as viewership goes. It isn't even much of an argument. Its been a year since his push now. Its not changed. The belt now means fuck all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I also have no idea who would want to watch Abyss Vs Kane. Â I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van Dammer Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 What has translated to the box office in say the last ten years? PPV buys have been on a steady decline for almost all of that period and nobody in that time has offered any more than a very short term spike to that trend. Yes they have. Jeff Hardy, Edge, Randy Orton, Batista, Nexus were drawing far more interest on the road and on TV than CM Punk was as champion. Sure, they weren't a Austin or a Rock, but nobody is asking CM Punk to be Austin or Rock. They just want him to be in segments consistently where he isn't losing hundreds of thousands of viewers. Its unheard of for a babyface to have this kind of negative effect on business. Business has been on the downturn for years, but the big decline, which has resulted in the lowest television ratings in 15 years has come during a time when CM Punk is holding the belt, and usually with him in the lowest viewed segment. Â If you want to get into this shit argument, there's plenty of redundant threads where this has been done over and over again. The fact is, he's killed the belt, because the writers and Vince McMahon have just kept it on him and kept him away from important time slots and PPV main events, because he is a detriment to the product as far as viewership goes. It isn't even much of an argument. Its been a year since his push now. Its not changed. The belt now means fuck all. Â I dont see how you can class Nexus as anything more than a short term spike, considering they were only around for a short time anyway. I was also talking purely from a PPV buy rates point of view as you initially said box office, I presumed thats what you meant. Buy Rates have been steadily decreasing for the last ten years and theres been no change in that other than short term spikes, the last of which ironically came at MITB2011, although Extreme Rules this year may have done the same, I cant remember seeing that one. Its slightly harsh also to blame Punk for any PPV or ratings dips at the moment seeing as you admitted they are keeping him out of any key timeslots and main events, yet the ratings and buy rates are still falling. I understand where you were coming from with that point though, there was a trend of lost viewership in his timeslots a while back, but it seems odd you laying the blame at his door and then admitting after that he hasnt been their key man throughout his title run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I lived with a Mexican fella for a bit, and asked him about wrestling once because I believed the dickheads who say wrestling in Mexico is like football here. This lad must have been from Brazil really, because he hadn't a clue. Never heard of AAA or CMLL or even WWE. His only experience of pro wrestling was "Oh, it's called TNA or something?" And this was in 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think in this country, certainly, the majority of younger, less miserable wrestling fans are very familiar with TNA's big names because of Impact not being behind a paywall, whereas WWE is. Anyway, here's my card:  John Cena vs. AJ Styles  CM Punk vs. Samoa Joe  Undertaker vs. Sting  Jeff Hardy/James Storm/Rob Van Dam/Mr. Anderson/Abyss vs. The Miz/Cody Rhodes/Dolph Ziggler/Wade Barrett/Alberto Del Rio  Kurt Angle vs. Jack Swagger  Randy Orton vs. Bobby Roode  Austin Aries vs. Daniel Bryan  Santino Marella vs. Eric Young  Crimson vs. Ryback  Zack Ryder/Mason Ryan vs. Robbie E/Robbie T  Bully Ray/Christopher Daniels/Frankie Kazarian vs. Kofi Kingston/Brodus Clay/R-Truth  This was written a few weeks back, hence the Crimson match, which was to see him squashed by Ryback to end the streak. Missing a few people like Morgan, Kane and Big Show, but fuck it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vince russo Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 heres my stacked card:  John Cena vs Hulk Hogan  Streak: Undertaker vs Sting  TNA vs WWE Title Match: Kurt Angle vs Daniel Bryan  CM Punk vs Bobby Roode  Triple H w/Steph vs Jeff Jarrett w/Karen  AJ Styles vs Dolph Ziggler  8-Man Elimination Match: Sheamus, Christian, Alberto Del Rio and Big Show vs James Storm, RVD, Bully Ray and Samoa Joe  Grudge Match: Randy Orton vs Mr Anderson  Austin Aries vs Rey Mysterio  TNA vs WWE Tag Titles: Kazarian and Daniels vs Air Boom  The Miz vs Jeff Hardy  Streetfight: Kane vs Abyss  Divas vs Knockouts Title : Kharma vs Mickie James  Zack Ryder vs Robbie E  30 Man Battle Royal with the Rest of the Rosters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 heres my stacked card: John Cena vs Hulk Hogan  Streak: Undertaker vs Sting  TNA vs WWE Title Match: Kurt Angle vs Daniel Bryan  CM Punk vs Bobby Roode  Triple H w/Steph vs Jeff Jarrett w/Karen  AJ Styles vs Dolph Ziggler  8-Man Elimination Match: Sheamus, Christian, Alberto Del Rio and Big Show vs James Storm, RVD, Bully Ray and Samoa Joe  Grudge Match: Randy Orton vs Mr Anderson  Austin Aries vs Rey Mysterio  TNA vs WWE Tag Titles: Kazarian and Daniels vs Air Boom  The Miz vs Jeff Hardy  Streetfight: Kane vs Abyss  Divas vs Knockouts Title : Kharma vs Mickie James  Zack Ryder vs Robbie E  30 Man Battle Royal with the Rest of the Rosters  Makes no sense whatsoever. You've got about fifteen matches there. WrestleMania isn't some 1PW event, playing to perverts who are staying out until 4am watching it. The only perverts watching WrestleMania until that time are in this country watching it on the telly or computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Cena v Undertaker Rock v HBK Batista v Lesnar HHH v Sting CM Punk v Jeff Hardy Rey Mysterio v Alberto Del Rio Vince v Johnny Another big 12 man tag Divas bikini contest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Freebird Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Excellent use of the TNA roster there. Also, have I missed Batista's return? I didn't reaise he was even active these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderBag Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Cena v Undertaker Rock v HBK Batista v Lesnar HHH v Sting CM Punk v Jeff Hardy Rey Mysterio v Alberto Del Rio Vince v Johnny Another big 12 man tag Divas bikini contest  You sure you don't want to give every match a stipulation and special referee also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamp Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Id say theres a very good chance wwe would try re-signing hardy considering the fanbase he has   Good point. He will make money for them. Plus the chance of re uniting the Hardy Boyz for one last run too.  Fuck doing that. Bringing in Matt as well would be a waste of Jeff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patiirc Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Bit of the old fantasy booking then  World Title: Cena vs Bobby Roode  Heavyweight Title: Sheamus vs Bully Ray  Sting vs Undertaker  Intercontinental Title match: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Austin Aries  6 Man MITB Jeff Hardy vs AJ Styles vs Kofi Kingston vs Christopher Daniels vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kurt Angle  Survivor Series Style Elimination Match/War Games WWE vs TNA- Team WWE Big Show, Del Rio, R Truth, Miz vs Team TNA RVD, Samoa Joe, James Storm, Jeff Jarrett +Added man making it 5 vs 4 from the winner of the pre show Battle Royal  Diva's Title: Miss Tessmacher vs Kelly Kelly  Pre Show  TNA vs WWE Battle Royal  Kane Abyss Robbie E Zack Ryder William Regal Christian Sin Cara Ryback Brodus Clay Robbie T Mr Anderson Devon  That will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reznor Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Excellent use of the TNA roster there. Also, have I missed Batista's return? I didn't reaise he was even active these days! Don't worry, maybe a couple could find their way into the multiman tag, the rest can be pre-show lumberjacks  No idea if the animal's active or not. I'd imagine he'll be back at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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