Making Raw exciting again

[Loki]

Dunno, but certainly the last draw they made was Cena. And they REALLY rammed him down out throats. John is excellent now, I've got no complaints, but there was a time when his ceaseless push, coupled with some underwhelming matches, just made the whole thing seem pointless.

 

I guess the thing is they stuck to it. They need to chose someone new and stick to him too. Except not Sheamus, as he's fucking terrible.

[Arch Stanton]

Dunno, but certainly the last draw they made was Cena. And they REALLY rammed him down out throats. John is excellent now, I've got no complaints, but there was a time when his ceaseless push, coupled with some underwhelming matches, just made the whole thing seem pointless.

 

I guess the thing is they stuck to it. They need to chose someone new and stick to him too. Except not Sheamus, as he's fucking terrible.

It will be Sheamus, he's their next Cena. He's the only one they have that has the look of a marketable superstar and the workrate to match it. When I say workrate, I'm not talking dirty, I'm talking about personal appearances, promotion, Make-A-Wish and all that jazz. Sheamus is already one of their top men for those jobs. He is easily good enough in the ring to put on main event calibre matches too. I don't expect to see him turn heel for a very very long time now. I could be wrong of course, but I don't see anybody else on the roster in a position to replace Cena as the company's lead babyface.

[patiirc]

If its what 'the fans' want then at least its better than it's what a bunch of writers who seemingly have no clue what is going on at present want.

You are talking pure wet, lad. Nobody is going to like Raw more just because WWE announced they had pat's panel working on it. "Well I thought Raw was shit but then I found out a focus group of faceless fans in America booked it/liked it, so I think it was alright now."

 

Nah, totally disagree. Fans views and forums work particularly well in other areas, such as football and stuff. The idea is about making the fans feel part of the product rather than being just presented the product and being told what to like and what not to like. When whatever is on offer doesnt click with them and there is no way for them to 'change' it. Then they drift away because they are going to stay away from something they dont like.

 

Because wrestling is presented as sports entertainment it would seem churlish to completely ignore what people want from that in both the sports side of thing and the entertainment side of things. Even the major soaps listen to what fans want on ocassion rather than them ploughing blindly on with what they (the head honcho wants to acheive) It cost the most recent head of Eastenders his job, because he had taken the soap opera in a direction that was completely fucking off people so he jumped before he was pushed.

 

It's not about paying full lipservice, it's about getting fans onside and giving the illusion that they have a voice. WWE can try what they say, because it is what the fans wanted. If it bombs then it bombs, but it has to be better than now where you are at the whim and mercy of those in charge who are clearly a bit removed from what is happening outside their bubble. They were late picking up on Twitter and Yes chants and so on because they havent got a connection with their core audience. Hence why partly there is a problem.

 

As mentioned in my original post its part of a problem, not the answer to the whole. Get what's left of the existing fan base onside through at least giving them a say, even if it is very little, but is at least tried and you make them feel part of the product and then you will have some investment from them. Build from that with feuds and characters that make sense and arent chopped and changed every 5 seconds or arent clear allegories to the past (Ryback=Goldberg Chants) etc and then there is a base to build from. The Bookers and Creative need to be more intune with what is happening or they will lose more viewers before/if it gets better when they somehow strike gold dust. Bringing back past stars or following old ways of building people isnt working The Rock popped numbers only at Mania afaik and Lesnars impact has been negligable afaik. What they are doing isnt working, so they need to think outside the box a little more . Ingratiation of the fans a little more isnt going to harm the product and could help solidify fan numbers and indeed boost them. A company that listens to what the fans want (even a little bit)? Could be a goer

[Arch Stanton]

They do listen though, don't they? Or at least they offer the opportunity for feedback. They never shut up about the 'WWE Universe', they are mad keen on Twitter and Facebook, message board on their own website (I think?) and even YouTube now- all are avenues for fans to contribute opinion on the product.

[King Pitcos]

They do listen though, don't they? Or at least they offer the opportunity for feedback. They never shut up about the 'WWE Universe', they are mad keen on Twitter and Facebook, message board on their own website (I think?) and even YouTube now- all are avenues for fans to contribute opinion on the product.

 

That, as well as the thousands cheering in arenas every show, and the ones watching the TV shows, ordering the pay-per-views and buying the merchandise.

 

pat, would you seriously like a shit episode of Raw more just because it turned out it had been booked/approved by your magical committee? If your answer to that is yes, it's because you're a looper, it's not because it's a good idea. Your whole nonsense is based on the notion that people don't enjoy Raw not because of the quality or lack thereof, but because of some grudge against Evil Vince and the Hollywood Writers. That might be your reason for not liking Raw, but that only points to something deeply wrong with you. People generally don't like Raw because they just didn't enjoy the show, regardless of who wrote it. You've put the cart about ten miles in front of the horse and then dashed your own brains out against the back wheels. "Wow, that episode of Breaking Bad was great! What? It was written by industry professionals and not approved by twelve gimps who got roped in off the street? Fuck that then, I hated it!"

 

Your focus group might feel more involved in the show by their involvement. Nobody else watching will.

[patiirc]

They do listen though, don't they? Or at least they offer the opportunity for feedback. They never shut up about the 'WWE Universe', they are mad keen on Twitter and Facebook, message board on their own website (I think?) and even YouTube now- all are avenues for fans to contribute opinion on the product.

 

I don't think they do particularly. Yes, they are mad keen on Twitter etc, but only seem to accentuate the positives that tie in with what the writers and creative would have you think as working. Afaik they are completely dismissive of anything that is anti what they want to portray, unless they come to the realisation themselves that it isnt working 100 years after the horse has bolted.

 

It's no good asking for fans to comment on product and ignore everything that doesnt tie in with what they are currently trying to do on screen. As I said originally, if there is something in place where by things get listened to and acted upon rather than just voiced Ill stand corrected, but with videos and stuff it seems that they dont take notice, or try to bring it into line after it has got successful because it wasnt controlled and thus batter the concept to death in a way only the WWE know how, rather than actually listen to what people want.

 

As said Im not saying that fans should run the show, but smothering and ignoring things or coming to things late and battering them in to the WWE way rather than letting them evolve really isnt helping.

[patiirc]

That, as well as the thousands cheering in arenas every show, and the ones watching the TV shows, ordering the pay-per-views and buying the merchandise.

 

pat, would you seriously like a shit episode of Raw more just because it turned out it had been booked by your magical committee? If your answer to that is yes, it's because you're a looper, it's not because it's a good idea. Your whole nonsense is based on the notion that people don't enjoy Raw not because of the quality or lack thereof, but because of some grudge against Evil Vince and the Hollywood Writers. That might be your reason for not liking Raw, but that only points to something deeply wrong with you. People generally don't like Raw because they just didn't enjoy the show, regardless of who wrote it. You've put the cart about ten miles in front of the horse and then dashed your own brains out against the back wheels. "Wow, that episode of Breaking Bad was great! What? It was written by industry professionals and not twelve gimps who got roped in off the street? Fuck that then, I hated it!"

 

 

All those numbers are down across the board arent they? Arena shows are down iirc, TV ratings are down and merch figures are down. All of them significantly so. The current model isnt working is it?

 

 

A Shit Raw? You have pretty much described the last 5 months or so of the product. People will usually highlight good segments or what not, but people saying it was great or good or whatever is very much on the slide. As said its part of an answer to get fans more involved. Im not suggesting for one minute the fans take over, just more that they are listened to or ideas taken on board, both regarding good content or bad content and not ignoring what is being shit on because it doesnt tie in with the creative teams vision because it clearly isnt working. It smacks of throwing things against the wall and bludgeoning what ever has a glimmer of hope to death or losing faith with it 5 seconds after starting it because it didnt get an immediate reaction.

 

To me, it screams that creative etc are not on the pulse nor the same wave length as the fans and whilst they are pushing their product they are misfiring spectacularly. They could come good, but it is getting to the point where they are embarrassing with their attempts and even the live audiences are shitting on things at various points. Hardly indicative of being on the pulse. As mentioned Ive used Soaps misfiring as an example but when people (on here) are actively drifting away from Raw as an example to the competition because it actually connects with them then you know you have a problem.

 

I'm not saying Vince or the Hollywood writers are evil, indeed there is some good in what they do, its because they aren't connecting that is the problem people are losing interest in things because there is nothing to buy in to for reasons I've already discussed.

[Pinc]

Pat - if you admit that you don't know whether or not they use focus groups now then surely that shows that their use doesn't make the fanbase feel more involved, since no-body knows about it.

 

WWE aren't doing much wrong. The run from Elimination Chamber to Extreme Rules contained the 3 or 4 best Raws they've done in years, the highlight being the night after WrestleMania in Miami.

 

One thing that could help is giving somebody else a turn as the focus of the show instead of Cena. I understand that for the past 12 months they've had the Rock match to build to and so Cena had to remain the ace for at least that long, but as people have said nobody else feels like a special attraction at the moment and as great as he is Cena only got there through brute force, so give somebody else the same treatment.

 

It wouldn't mean doing anything radical like turning Cena heel or having him disappear from the shows. He could actually 'drop' back into the WWE title picture for the time being and have a slightly less prominent role. Then next time Rock or Triple H or Lesnar shows up on Raw, how about a full-timer other than Cena being presented as worthy of interaction with them? There was a moment when Punk would have been the obvious choice for this and I think he's capable of getting back there, but he's one of the worst babyfaces I've ever seen at the moment and I'm not sure I could bare even a month of him bottling half his lines while doing his smarmy deconstruction shit with Rock's catchphrases or whatever.

 

The crowd are mad into Bryan at the moment and I could actually see them buying him as something of a threat to Lesnar, since they've done a good job of getting him over as a technician. It would be a shame to turn Bryan at the moment with how great his heel act is but a SummerSlam main with Lesnar could see him catch fire, and then maybe they'd have two special attractions who's storylines could be used to fill these upcoming 3 hour Raws.

[patiirc]

Pat - if you admit that you don't know whether or not they use focus groups now then surely that shows that their use doesn't make the fanbase feel more involved, since no-body knows about it.

 

It's an idea on a discussion board. No more, no less. I have discussed some of the pro's for it and whilst people may not agree, I have put some points across that at present I feel would help improve the product in the long run. Next, we will be talking about unknown, unknowns or something?

[FLips]

I can't be arsed to read all of that wall of text, but Pat's point of them only accentuating the things the writers want is bollocks. On Raw they had "Alex Riley is trending worldwide" and nobody gives two shits about him.

[patiirc]

I can't be arsed to read all of that wall of text, but Pat's point of them only accentuating the things the writers want is bollocks. On Raw they had "Alex Riley is trending worldwide" and nobody gives two shits about him.

 

And your suggestion for 'saving WWE' is?

 

A-Ry has trended top 10 on Raw twice in the last couple months or so as per here. There is even a #pushalexriley tag going around.

 

The WWE has kept up its current end of of 'look we are trending on twitter' bollocks, whilst ignoring what people want. They are accentuating positives, as in trending on twitter as it fits in with what they want ,and ignoring that there are positive calls for for A-Ry who the creative team have ditched.

 

Clearly people do still care about him or he wouldnt be trending, but I guess that doesnt fit in to your view and makes it 'bollocks' as you so eloquently put it.

[Vamp]

I can't be arsed to read all of that wall of text, but Pat's point of them only accentuating the things the writers want is bollocks. On Raw they had "Alex Riley is trending worldwide" and nobody gives two shits about him.

 

And your suggestion for 'saving WWE' is?

 

A-Ry has trended top 10 on Raw twice in the last couple months or so as per here. There is even a #pushalexriley tag going around.

 

The WWE has kept up its current end of of 'look we are trending on twitter' bollocks, whilst ignoring what people want. They are accentuating positives, as in trending on twitter as it fits in with what they want ,and ignoring that there are positive calls for for A-Ry who the creative team have ditched.

 

Clearly people do still care about him or he wouldnt be trending, but I guess that doesnt fit in to your view and makes it 'bollocks' as you so eloquently put it.

 

I was under the impression that pretty much anyone and anything trended while RAW was on, it just depended what was happening on screen at the time?

 

And yes, the WWE do keep stupidly using the twitter trending to accentuate the positives and look good. Me and Vinny Mac talked about that a few weeks ago actually. I said "shit man, social media isn't about making your company look good, it's about listening to my hombres who know nothing about running a show G" and he was all "what?" and I was all "oh fuck off, don't start that nonsense again".

 

It's fine saying they should listen to their fans more but so far you've suggested asking a group of representatives, then not asking a group of representatives, then listening to social media but not just listening to one select proportion of the fanbase, making sure you capitalise on what might be something even though it might be shit while at the same time dropping anything that might be something but also might be shit and now you're suggesting that the WWE don't acknoweldge when things are trending such as when they acknowledge that Alex Riley is trending. It is okay to just say you don't know, you know?

 

Also, do the 'E still have that contract with Hasbro? Because going on from earlier, and stealing from a luchadore who keeps popping up in a different super hero costume each week and CMLL also once having a guy named after their newspaper sponsor, WWE should totally call a guy Hasbro and have him dress up as a different toy each week. Brings in elements of mystery, suspense and surprise.

[FLips]

Twice in a few months? Fuck me, he must be popular then. People don't "want" Alex Riley, at least nowhere near the majority. He was probably trending those times because he was on TV for a few seconds and someone probably put "I thought #AlexRiley was dead" or "Rare #AlexRiley sighting on Raw".

 

I don't have a method to "save WWE" because it's not a subject that I care much about.

[patiirc]

I was under the impression that pretty much anyone and anything trended while RAW was on, it just depended what was happening on screen at the time?

 

I'm pretty sure that it isn't anyone and everything trending on RAW, many news sites cover what trends these days and it isn't always about what is on screen at the time.

 

And yes, the WWE do keep stupidly using the twitter trending to accentuate the positives and look good. Me and Vinny Mac talked about that a few weeks ago actually. I said "shit man, social media isn't about making your company look good, it's about listening to my hombres who know nothing about running a show G" and he was all "what?" and I was all "oh fuck off, don't start that nonsense again".

 

Que? I've already explained my stance here above, if the powers that be did know what they were doing currently, then a) we wouldnt be having this discussion as to how to make Raw better/more exciting/more involved and b) fans wouldnt be leaving the product in droves.

 

 

It's fine saying they should listen to their fans more but so far you've suggested asking a group of representatives, then not asking a group of representatives, then listening to social media but not just listening to one select proportion of the fanbase, making sure you capitalise on what might be something even though it might be shit while at the same time dropping anything that might be something but also might be shit and now you're suggesting that the WWE don't acknoweldge when things are trending such as when they acknowledge that Alex Riley is trending. It is okay to just say you don't know, you know?

 

When have I said not asking a group of representatives? I said about them not filling in a questionnaire, but nothing about not asking a group of fans. Questionnaires are easily manipulated and the tick box nature can skew results and miss out the finer details. Asking for an honest appraisal from fans warts and all may help things to be better.

 

I've not said that it is the be all and end all of things either, for the umpteenth time. It's just something that I feel could help people to feel more connected to the brand and thus maintain an interest. Fleshing out a Fans Panel a little more , there could be 2 long serving fans 1 for The US, 1 for the rest of the world who would be in situ for 6 months at a time. Their 'job' would be to report back to WWE using their own views and views on websites, forums, twitter and so on giving a varied feedback as to how the product was, what is good and what is bad. The rest of the panel would be made up of 6 to 8 revolving fans 3/4 from the US, 3/4 from The rest of the world. These would be refreshed every couple of weeks so as to make sure many different peoples views were taken on board, meaning that the WWE would get a variety of feedbacks from around the world as to what was good and what wasn't.

 

It may be folly, it may be unworkable, it may even be that the fans on the panel are complicit and agree with what is on show but at least it is there. Its different to the generic bring back old stars and that will solve everything that some have suggested. Jericho and Albert's returns haven't worked. Brock's return didn't bring in the expected numbers and even the Rock's return didn't really impact TV ratings. Sure it made a difference to Mania, but otherwise it was flat in terms of what the WWE was seemingly trying to do. Poor booking and creative hasn't helped and is systemic of the malaise currently around the product

 

As said its only one thing as part of a bigger whole.

 

Furthermore, I wasnt suggesting that WWE don't acknowledge when things are trending, I was suggesting that they pay attention to things that trend that they don't put on screen as not all of it is positive for the product. Rather than just going 'look, 'XYZ' is trending on twitter isn't it brilliant?' they should delve a little deeper to see what people are actually saying whether it is good or bad.

 

 

Twice in a few months? Fuck me, he must be popular then. People don't "want" Alex Riley, at least nowhere near the majority. He was probably trending those times because he was on TV for a few seconds and someone probably put "I thought #AlexRiley was dead" or "Rare #AlexRiley sighting on Raw".

 

People are calling for him to be on Raw more often, in the new WWE game over the net and so on, so he still has some worth. He is wanted in some parts of the audience it would appear, despite him being completely buried for the large part of things.

 

Some were indeed saying that it was a rare appearance. Others were calling for him to be used better and more often. It would appear that there is some market for A-Ry despite his recent booking by WWE

[Sphinx]

I really can't be bothered to read the posts about the fan's choice.

 

I would say they should look at getting a VP of Common Sense though. I think I've said it here before. It seems the writers tend to be in a bubble. The WWE need a format change. The format for the show is predictable. I understand you need it somewhat predictable to make the moments like the pull apart brawl with Brock and Cena or the 'shoot' promo with Punk special; that's no reason not to have more variety. And yeah, I would like the stage and music to change. I reckon that'll happen on the 1000th episode. I'll go into more detail later on what I'd do.