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The Why Don't You Get a Job Thread


kendal mint cake

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So, do I stick it out, make money but go insane, or risk fucking it off for somewhere with better hours, a better reputation, but where I don't do as well?

Stick it out whilst looking for somewhere with better hours. Get your iPhone and a steady income; beggars can't be choosers and all that. Besides, plenty of people have undesirable jobs that encompass plenty worse than working in an unprofessional workplace. Get through it and move on when the opportunity arises and you can tell prospective employers that you exceeded your targets every time.

Forgot to mention that I've got an interview with a company on Wednesday with a company offering better hours, a better reputation and pretty much identical money, but where there's a risk I don't take to it as well as I have at the current place.

I feel a bit at odds with the idea of walking away from what is reasonably easy money, and as good a chance as any to get back into an upwardly moving career.

 

Firstly the Jobcentre is not a law office and as such the staff are not trained in the legalities of national minimum wage etc.

I don't mean to be horrible, but, your attitude to work sounds terrible. You have to work long hours? So what it's real life. If you feel that shit then look for other work rather than signing on, I cannot see how anyone would rather sign on than be self supporting. Mind you, if your friends are in there and falsifying your information then they are just as bad for encouraging you, and they are also committing fraud.

There's working long hours, and then there's working long hours with 6 hours of commuting added to it. Getting home at 2am and then having to scour the ads for suitable vaccancies? When would be you be avaliable for interviews? If you're three hours away, it's not like you can arrange one for in your lunch hour or blag it off as a dental appointment.

 

I've long held a belief in the importance of "employmental health". I've known no end of people over the years who can't seperate their work and social life, and end up spending all their free time moaning about work, and every spare minute of the working day trying to sort out their personal life. It's not healthy for them, and not productive for the employer.

I'm an old fashioned guy in that I like to go to work in the morning and worry about nothing but that, and at the end of the day switch off and go home. If I'd spent three hours on a bus, getting home at 2am and knowing that I had to be up at 4am for the next shift then there'd probably be videos of me on Liveleak by now.

 

But yeah, don't be going back to JC+ unless you absolutely, absolutely have to (although yours sounds infinitely less unpleasent than mine). Nothing local is going to pay less than you're already on (unless it's one of those self-employment scams), so go flip burgers for a couple of months and enjoy the extra hours in bed.

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Firstly the Jobcentre is not a law office and as such the staff are not trained in the legalities of national minimum wage etc.

I don't mean to be horrible, but, your attitude to work sounds terrible. You have to work long hours? So what it's real life. If you feel that shit then look for other work rather than signing on, I cannot see how anyone would rather sign on than be self supporting. Mind you, if your friends are in there and falsifying your information then they are just as bad for encouraging you, and they are also committing fraud.

 

To clarify, I wasn't going to go into the Job Centre to ask about the legality of not being paid minimum wage, I was going to ask for advice about whether I'd likely be sanctioned for refusing to work for below minimum wage. Secondly, my advisor didn't falsify anything. I'd written the six activities in my book like I was asked to but didn't realise it was supposed to three per week so four or five of them were in the first week. Instead of sanctioning me for it (which she could have done apparently) she explained what I'd done wrong, asked me for another couple of things I'd done that week and added them for me. I had actually done them all and more so it was hardly fraud.

 

I wasn't saying "My mates work at the Job Centre and let me away with everything!!!", I was trying to say that the staff have always been really helpful, as opposed to the staff at Baz's one. That could be because I've spoken to a few of them outside it, or it could just be a much better Job Centre. I'd never spoken to that particular advisor before that day, for example, but she still didn't fuck me over.

 

Where did I say that I'd rather sign on than be self supporting? I'm not talking about quitting and living off JSA for the rest of my life. If I wanted to do that, I wouldn't have applied for this job in the first place would I? I would've at least have walked out as soon as I realised that it wasn't the hours and pay that were advertised. I am looking for other work, but like Baz said, it's not exactly easy with these hours, I can't even search on my break at work because it's in the middle of nowhere and I don't get a signal on my phone.

 

But yeah, don't be going back to JC+ unless you absolutely, absolutely have to (although yours sounds infinitely less unpleasent than mine). Nothing local is going to pay less than you're already on (unless it's one of those self-employment scams), so go flip burgers for a couple of months and enjoy the extra hours in bed.

 

That's a good point. As nice as the staff have been in my Job Centre, I still hate going there and hate being unemployed in general. I'm applying to anything and everything I can find right now, as you said, it's not like I can be paid any less and travel alone would make anything better than what I have been doing.

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  • 2 months later...
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Judges rule in favor of girl who claimed workfare schemes were unlawful.

 

This is going to cause a shitstorm. Hundreds of people have been made unemployed so that employers can take advantage of the free labour, and Job Centres up and down the country have been criticised for telling claimants that taking these posts is mandatory.

 

I particularly like how the DWP have made no attempts to apologise for this, instead focussing on how they'll be changing the guidelines to ensure they don't have to repay anyone who has had their payments stopped dishonestly.

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Judges rule in favor of girl who claimed workfare schemes were unlawful.

 

This is going to cause a shitstorm. Hundreds of people have been made unemployed so that employers can take advantage of the free labour, and Job Centres up and down the country have been criticised for telling claimants that taking these posts is mandatory.

 

I particularly like how the DWP have made no attempts to apologise for this, instead focussing on how they'll be changing the guidelines to ensure they don't have to repay anyone who has had their payments stopped dishonestly.

and less than 24 hours later, they're extending the schemes instead... because y'know, fuck the courts or something, I dunno.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9...e-unlawful.html

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This should be interesting, as potentially a lot of other cases will now come to court using this ruling. And as much as they may not like it, the legislature and the executive are bound by the ruling of the judiciary.

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Good. The idea that private companies are getting a taxpayer subsidised workforce is sickening. If Poundland/Tesco or whoever have a job vacancy it should be filled with someone on a proper wage. I'm more surprised that the reactions I've seen to this have been pretty mixed, some people claiming 'they're lazy'. Do people fail to grasp that we're subsidising private businesses or don't they care & are just clouded as soon as 'benefits' is mentioned.

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Good. The idea that private companies are getting a taxpayer subsidised workforce is sickening. If Poundland/Tesco or whoever have a job vacancy it should be filled with someone on a proper wage. I'm more surprised that the reactions I've seen to this have been pretty mixed, some people claiming 'they're lazy'. Do people fail to grasp that we're subsidising private businesses or don't they care & are just clouded as soon as 'benefits' is mentioned.

 

They do, benefits is pretty much a slur word these days in certain circles.

 

Now that this has been opened up, how long is it going to be before Universal Jobmatch and its utter shitness is exposed and causes further embarrasses the DWP?

 

Some have my clients have been sanctioned for nothing because of this new 'system'. A system which is going to mess up a lot of people's lives if it becomes mandatory. An even bigger laugh is that some DWP/JCP staff are going to be sanctioning themselves because of it. I wonder how they'll get out of it?

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Do people fail to grasp that we're subsidising private businesses or don't they care & are just clouded as soon as 'benefits' is mentioned.

Yep. Look how many times they use the word "workshy" is used in the article Mike posted, instead of "unemployed" or "jobseeker".

 

An even bigger laugh is that some DWP/JCP staff are going to be sanctioning themselves because of it. I wonder how they'll get out of it?

At the risk of sounding like a vulture, I'd like to hear more about this.

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An even bigger laugh is that some DWP/JCP staff are going to be sanctioning themselves because of it. I wonder how they'll get out of it?

At the risk of sounding like a vulture, I'd like to hear more about this.

 

A lot of DWP/JCP staff claim a form of benefit one way or another, for those at the low low end of the scale there were plans for them to sign up to the UJ site to look for other/part time jobs and use it against them to get them off whatever it is they are claiming for. Within this, if a staff member uses the UJ site and is under review in their workplace, they can unwittingly sanction themselves if they don't apply for certain jobs within the field.

 

It will probably come to nothing but it certainly amused me when the rumblings came through the grapevine. I haven't heard much since December though.

 

There is a slight mention to it here though: PCS Website

 

For those who can't click the link:

 

Impact on staff as claimants

It is estimated that as many as 40% of the staff working on UC will also be entitled to claim UC, once UC replaces working tax credits. This presents a number of issues. Firstly is to ensure that any staff claims are dealt with in a way that ensures complete confidentiality.

 

Of more concern is the impact of the increased conditionality regime that UC will introduce. This is likely to particularly impact on part time staff claiming UC whose gross part time pay is below the full time national minimum wage. In this case they may be subject to a similar conditionality regime to current JSA and ESA claimants. In other words they could be expected to attend interviews with Job Centre advisors whose role would be to encourage them to increase their earnings in order to take them off UC.

 

This is of course something totally new and is extremely sensitive. PCS’ view is that it is wrong to extend conditionality to anyone who is in work and is currently arguing for the UC regulations to be changed accordingly. However the government appear determined to treat in work UC claimants in the same way that they treat out of work claimants. DWP has yet to decide how they may handle any DWP staff who are affected by this.

 

Also if you want to know whats coming up and what could be coming up have a read through this:

Public & Commercial Union Services - DWP

 

This is a sly move as well, taken from the above site:

 

Department for Work and Pensions group

 

Short Term Benefit Advances

11 February 2013

 

The abolition of Social Fund Crisis Loans from 1 April 2013 means that Crisis Loan alignment payments will also end. Claimants making a new claim to benefit, and who cannot manage until their first payday will, from April onwards, have to apply for a Short Term Benefit Advance (STBA) instead.

Conditions

 

DWP does not intend to advertise the availability of STBAs to the public. They will be only offered to a claimant if they indicate to the member of staff taking their claim that they cannot manage financially. The availability of a STBA will not be immediately obvious to those claiming on line.

 

STBAs are subject to three criteria:

 

There is an underlying benefit entitlement or reasonable expectation that there is entitlement to benefit;

The claimant can afford to repay – other debt and loan repayments will be taken into account;

There is financial need – there is serious risk to the health and safety of a family member.

 

Decisions on STBAs will not be subject to review or appeal. Those who do not qualify will be ‘sign-posted’ by staff to their Local Authority’s Local Welfare Provision. The nature of this provision will vary from local authority to local authority and in many cases may not be in the form of a cash payment.

Staffing

 

Management estimate that 1,069 full time equivalent staff will be required to deliver STBAs in April 2013. These staff will in the main be staff previously working on Social Fund or Crisis Loans and will be located in both CCS and BD. This number is expected to decrease to 787 by August 2013 as the new system becomes established and the public become more aware of the changes and of the alternative support provided by Local Authorities. This fall in staffing will mainly be in the contact centres. It is not clear at this stage how this will be managed. Numbers in Benefit Delivery Centres should remain static.

Impact

 

Training will be provided for all staff likely to be engaged in the administration of STBAs. Information gathering will be conducted primarily at AO level with decisions being made by EOs.

 

Conclusion

 

The STBA system has been devised at the very last minute. It remains to be seen if management’s staffing projections are correct and PCS will continue to press management to ensure the STBA work is fully staffed. The abolition of Crisis Loans is a big gamble by the department. PCS fear the reactions of angry claimants when they realise Crisis Loans no longer exist and they see that the local authority provision meant to replace them is hopelessly inadequate. PCS will continue to raise these concerns with management to ensure that all necessary safeguards are in place to ensure members’ safety. The introduction of STBAs are welcome as a partial mitigation to the abolition of Crisis loans and also as a way of absorbing potentially surplus Social Fund staff. It remains to be seen how adequate the new system is as a means of supporting claimants in acute financial need.

 

A) They don't intend to let anyone really know about it.

B) Devised at the last minute.

 

All you need to know about these fuckers. Yes, the social fund is widely abused but that it because they allowed it to be abused, now they are squeezing the necks of those who do/or may need to use it for legitimate purposes. Yes, some people may be able to get something out of them but I'm betting that they'll have to jump through hoops to get it.

Edited by Rule One
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I've been on JSA for over 12 months and am on the work programme. I've had a few issues with the UJM some of the jobs links don't work and I've had a few which have been for driving jobs but when I went to the interview it was for cold calling work. When Ive brought this up with my advisor they said there is nothing they can do. Ingeus works website which is like UJM is even shitter as its the same jobs as the UJM ones.

Also I haven't really had any help from Ingeus but having a bit luck on the job front lately but my adviser is taking all the credit and if I get in to work she gets some kind of incentive she has done fuck all. I could seriously do her it doesn't seem too hard and speaking with other people on the programme alls the advisor's seem to do is copy and paste CV's and covering letters, So even if you did get a interview if four people from the same office apply the CV's and letters will look the same down to even the fonts.

Edited by sonic screwdriver
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I've been on JSA for over 12 months and am on the work programme. I've had a few issues with the UJM some of the jobs links don't work and I've had a few which have been for driving jobs but when I went to the interview it was for cold calling work. When Ive brought this up with my advisor they said there is nothing they can do. Ingeus works website which is like UJM is even shitter as its the same jobs as the UJM ones.

Also I haven't really had any help from Ingeus but having a bit luck on the job front but my adviser is taking all the credit and if I get in to work she gets some kind of incentive she has done fuck all. I could seriously do her it doesn't seem too hard and speaking with other people on the programme alls the advisor's seem to do is copy and paste CV's and covering letters, So even if you did get a interview if four people from the same office apply the CV's and letters will look the same down to even the fonts.

 

The main issues I've faced with clients about UJ is that there is limited jobs and those get recycled on a weekly basis. Usually they're listed and then re-list the same thing under company confidential with a different date and if you're lucky a Reference code to make it look a bit better. However, the re-posts are usually worded the same and are easy to spot.

 

A lot of jobs are scams even though they say they are doing their best to keep them to a minimum. The site isn't safe and should never have been launched in its current state. Its a massive joke.

 

Thankfully the site isn't mandatory yet but if they succeed with their plans to make it that way, it will cause me and my clients no end of trouble.

Edited by Rule One
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I know its not mandatory but I get the feeling if I didn't use it I would be sanctioned not worth the risk to me. I didnt realise it had so many bugs Ive got my CV on there it cant be hacked can it ?

 

Its shit that you feel that way but you are far from alone within that. Just be careful what you apply for on the site and read everything that you can within the Job Details.

 

As far as I know, it can't be hacked but it is easy enough to put fake jobs on there to accrue people's/personal details. I don't think anyone would really try to hack the site as its a death wish in waiting.

 

When the site first launched, its data centers were listed in the USA, I don't know if that still applies with it though.

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