The Why Don't You Get a Job Thread

[Doog 25]

Need some advice please.

Currently really worried right now, I work in a call centre type role with lots of admin associated with it. I’ve never been one to follow processes as such and I know some of this is my fault but I need to know my options. So when we make calls we are judged on certain things by the QA department, have to say certain bits word for word, ask the right stuff, you know the score. In May i received email feedback from QA advising that my call scores were not good and I had failed on some mandatories and that “I would be referred to my Team Leader and call coaches for extra support. Fair enough. Then radio silence. No feedback for ages, no input from team leaders or anything. In early August I randomly got a message advising QA we’re going to sit with me. They sat with my for 1 hour. During that time I made several calls but no one answered and did admin work. They only observed.

No feedback again, nothing happened.

Today I’m pulled into a meeting with my Team Leader and Manager. They advise they have received a lot of feedback over the last couple months about my calls ad need to to do an investigation. We will meet again in 1 week and if the reports are upheld I will be going down a capability and disciplinary route.

Now I appreciate I may not have done all I need to do on the calls, i accept that, but I have been offered support and then it has not been delivered, and today was the first I’d heard about all of these so called terrible calls I’d done.

Do I have a leg to stand on relating to the potential disciplinary? What should my next move be? I’ve had no feedback since May, no support that I was promised and now this.

As a caveat me and my Team Leader get on well which makes it more awkward but she clearly doesn’t have my back in this instance. The manager and my Team Leader are also friends outside of work with the head of HR so I need to be careful how I play this.

Any advise would really be appreciated. Thank you

[Keith Houchen 17,575]

Capability and disciplinary are two different things, this should be "Feedback on the feedback" as it were and should be there to help steer you away from the disciplinary route. If this is the first time they've given you feedback, then it's the first time they're pointing out what needs correcting, so if it isn't corrected via capability, then it becomes a disciplinary matter.

[Porkchopcash 533]

It seems to me like it’s no big issue. Let them point out to you what you are doing incorrectly, then just apologise and ask for extra training or pointers on how to improve, play dumb.

 Also if you know you are not doing all you need to on calls then you cant get the ump when you’re pulled up on it.  I wouldnt try and make a big issue out of it with them as it will probably mark your cards and just lead to extra stress. Its best many times to accept a slap on the wrist and move on.

Edited September 5, 2019 by Porkchopcash

[FelatioLips 2,392]

In a very unexpected update I’m already back in work. The day before I quit I had been given feedback on an interview for a well established videogame shop but was told that I didn’t get the perm job but might hear back about a temp position in a few weeks. I’d not even been out of work a day yet and they called me up and asked me to start in a couple of weeks to help with the launch of the new Zelda and Nintendo Switch Lite. 

I got incredibly incredibly lucky.

[Briefcase 215]

22 hours ago, Doog said:

Need some advice please.

Currently really worried right now, I work in a call centre type role with lots of admin associated with it. I’ve never been one to follow processes as such and I know some of this is my fault but I need to know my options. So when we make calls we are judged on certain things by the QA department, have to say certain bits word for word, ask the right stuff, you know the score. In May i received email feedback from QA advising that my call scores were not good and I had failed on some mandatories and that “I would be referred to my Team Leader and call coaches for extra support. Fair enough. Then radio silence. No feedback for ages, no input from team leaders or anything. In early August I randomly got a message advising QA we’re going to sit with me. They sat with my for 1 hour. During that time I made several calls but no one answered and did admin work. They only observed.

No feedback again, nothing happened.

Today I’m pulled into a meeting with my Team Leader and Manager. They advise they have received a lot of feedback over the last couple months about my calls ad need to to do an investigation. We will meet again in 1 week and if the reports are upheld I will be going down a capability and disciplinary route.

Now I appreciate I may not have done all I need to do on the calls, i accept that, but I have been offered support and then it has not been delivered, and today was the first I’d heard about all of these so called terrible calls I’d done.

Do I have a leg to stand on relating to the potential disciplinary? What should my next move be? I’ve had no feedback since May, no support that I was promised and now this.

As a caveat me and my Team Leader get on well which makes it more awkward but she clearly doesn’t have my back in this instance. The manager and my Team Leader are also friends outside of work with the head of HR so I need to be careful how I play this.

Any advise would really be appreciated. Thank you

The very first thing I would ask is for them to provide/show you paperwork of what they feel you are not doing, the training received since the last conversation in May & any evidence to suggest you are not doing your job (e.g. call recordings, paperwork, complaints etc). Whilst its admirable that you are very honest I would probably play dumb in this instance and see what they say.

[Ralphy 1,153]

I have signed up to work in a charity shop starting next week, only 4 hours on a Thursday, feeling quite nervous, any tips for it please peeps? I need to do this to help my confidence and my cv 

Edited September 6, 2019 by Ralphy

[Ironic Indie Lad 477]

On ‎9‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 7:51 PM, Doog said:

Currently really worried right now, I work in a call centre type role with lots of admin associated with it. I’ve never been one to follow processes as such and I know some of this is my fault but I need to know my options. So when we make calls we are judged on certain things by the QA department, have to say certain bits word for word, ask the right stuff, you know the score. In May i received email feedback from QA advising that my call scores were not good and I had failed on some mandatories and that “I would be referred to my Team Leader and call coaches for extra support. Fair enough. Then radio silence. No feedback for ages, no input from team leaders or anything. In early August I randomly got a message advising QA we’re going to sit with me. They sat with my for 1 hour. During that time I made several calls but no one answered and did admin work. They only observed.

No feedback again, nothing happened.

First thing is that you need to remember that QA are only doing their jobs. Any oversight they complete on your work will likely be based on some sort of framework. If something on a call is considered by the business to be mandatory, it simply needs to be covered. There is no getting around that. If the QA guys didn't flag that up them they wouldn't be doing their job.

Usually things like scripting are mandatory for a reason - often to protect the business you are working for in the event of an audit, complaints etc. Especially in heavily regulated environments such as Financial Services.

QA and your manager should have a clear record of what work of yours has been checked, what feedback was provided and what the agreed actions are going forward. This should form part of your Training and Competence scheme if things are being managed properly.

I would suggest taking the feedback on board. Not being one to follow the process is never really going to fly. If the feedback, coaching etc has been poor or nonexistant than flag that up to your manager and they should discuss with QA.

[SuperBacon 7,904]

4 hours ago, Ralphy said:

I have signed up to work in a charity shop starting next week, only 4 hours on a Thursday, feeling quite nervous, any tips for it please peeps? I need to do this to help my confidence and my cv 

Where’s the shop, Dundee? Assume you’re walking to work?

Yeah, keep any football shirts and flog them on Depop. Charity shops are where I get most of mine from.

And enjoy your time there. 

[Ralphy 1,153]

1 hour ago, SuperBacon said:

Where’s the shop, Dundee? Assume you’re walking to work?

Yeah, keep any football shirts and flog them on Depop. Charity shops are where I get most of mine from.

And enjoy your time there. 

Its in john o groats, im not starting walking till at least Wednesday night so i don't get there too early...!

I will be working in the save the children charity shop, a friend works in there so i am doing it when he is on to make me a tad more comfortable, like those pair of trainers that are battered but you dont throw away 

Let me know what size you take, oo errrr, and if you want any particular club tops, and if i see any when out and about in other shops or in the shop i will be working in i will pick em up and send them to you at cost of item + postage  

 

[unfitfinlay 407]

On 9/6/2019 at 9:40 AM, Ralphy said:

I have signed up to work in a charity shop starting next week, only 4 hours on a Thursday, feeling quite nervous, any tips for it please peeps? I need to do this to help my confidence and my cv 

If it's anything like the one I worked in years ago then you'll be fine.

Everybody there will have their own reasons for being there, after all. The folk I worked with ranged from retirees, to folk with physical and mental disabilities, to one guy who just had some real confidence issues, to the point he'd struggle to say "Hello" in the morning.

They'll be used to working with all sorts of folk so nobody is going to get judgemental or arsey with you. The only people I ever say getting shit were a lassie who went to sleep on a pile of clothes, and a wee dickhead who was coming in the morning and dipping the till before we opened.

Just try and relax and enjoy the experience.

[Philo_Vance 45]

After 5 years of working for a shithouse firm building racking and displays and whatnot in branches of B and Q, I've managed to escape. Fiancé's dad got me a foot in the door with a housebuilding firm as logistics manager and three months later I'm moving up to assistant site manager and getting put through some professional qualifications. First job I've ever had with any kind of prospects. I'm loving it so far, but I'm also so far out of my depth that James Cameron keeps going past in his little submarine. 

[MPDTT 325]

On 9/4/2019 at 7:51 PM, Doog said:

Need some advice please.

Currently really worried right now, I work in a call centre type role with lots of admin associated with it. I’ve never been one to follow processes as such and I know some of this is my fault but I need to know my options. So when we make calls we are judged on certain things by the QA department, have to say certain bits word for word, ask the right stuff, you know the score. In May i received email feedback from QA advising that my call scores were not good and I had failed on some mandatories and that “I would be referred to my Team Leader and call coaches for extra support. Fair enough. Then radio silence. No feedback for ages, no input from team leaders or anything. In early August I randomly got a message advising QA we’re going to sit with me. They sat with my for 1 hour. During that time I made several calls but no one answered and did admin work. They only observed.

No feedback again, nothing happened.

Today I’m pulled into a meeting with my Team Leader and Manager. They advise they have received a lot of feedback over the last couple months about my calls ad need to to do an investigation. We will meet again in 1 week and if the reports are upheld I will be going down a capability and disciplinary route.

Now I appreciate I may not have done all I need to do on the calls, i accept that, but I have been offered support and then it has not been delivered, and today was the first I’d heard about all of these so called terrible calls I’d done.

Do I have a leg to stand on relating to the potential disciplinary? What should my next move be? I’ve had no feedback since May, no support that I was promised and now this.

As a caveat me and my Team Leader get on well which makes it more awkward but she clearly doesn’t have my back in this instance. The manager and my Team Leader are also friends outside of work with the head of HR so I need to be careful how I play this.

Any advise would really be appreciated. Thank you

Hi @Doog, as an HR Director, let me give you some advice. 

As said above, Capability and Conduct are different processes - conduct is typically dealt with under disciplinary processes (when you "won't do" what is required), Capability processes apply when you "can't do" (i.e. training gap or some other reason eg disibility). The investigation they undertake is likely to identify whether there is a capability issue or you simply choose to disregard the requirements of your role.

Capability procedures, otherwise known as Performance Improvement Procedures, should be used by good employers to help employees reach the standard required - usually by putting a Performance Improvement Plan in place with clear objectives, training, coaching and support specified - followed up with regular check in reviews and ongoing feedback. Typically I will ensure my managers put these in place for 12 weeks (with 3 x 4 weekly reviews). If performance has not improved after 4 weeks, we issue a written warning. If performance is still insufficient at 8 weeks, we issue a Final Written Warning. At the 12 week review, we would dismiss if performance is still below expectations. I do expect my managers to document concerns informally approximately 4 weeks before entering into formal processes to give my employees the chance to improve without entering formal processes (something I'm very passionate about, although not legally required - I hate managers coming to me to talk about "getting rid" of an under-performer when they have zero documented evidence of coaching for improvement of giving feedback to the employee). Employment lawyers tell me that tribunals would not look favourably on performance related dismissals if employers can't demonstrate 4-6 months worth of performance management, but I rarely let processes run that long and make a commercial decision to usually terminate employment at the 12 week mark (unless there is a protected characteristic).

So, looking at your case, there is clearly an under-performance issue. As long as you don't state in investigation that you know what you should be doing, but just choose not to do it, then this will be dealt with as a Capability /  Performance Improvement matter - not conduct. I would recommend you say at this stage that you are disappointed that you've been taken down this formal route at this stage without any informal coaching or support from your line manager or QA to improve - that should push the buttons of your Head of HR.

Now here's the more dirty stuff?

• Do you have 2 years service? If not, and your employer has an agenda, they can fire you and you don't have any comeback at tribunal unless you have a protective characteristic and are claiming discrimination (are you gay, an ethnic minority, pregnant etc). 
• If you are in your probationary period, they may decide just to terminate your employment without following any Performance Improvement Procedure - I probably would, so be wary
• Employers will always tell employees being put on a Capability / Performance Improvement Procedure that this is being done to "help the employee achieve the performance levels required" - your employer might genuinely mean this, but (trade secret) there are 2 types of performance improvement procedures - those designed to get someone out the company and those designed to genuinely support someone to improve. You need to figure out which it is - based on how achievable the targets are they set and the level of support offered (remember that if performance doesn't improve to the required level you will be dismissed). If its a genuine process and you are confident you can achieve expectations, then you have no problem. If on the other hand you get the sense that you are being managed out with unfeasible expectations, I'd begin looking for a new job - they will take several months to get you out (during which you can be looking for a new role). Whilst you could consider a tribunal claim post dismissal, there are no guarantees of success and any payout would be significantly reduced if you found another job in the meantime.

I do hope this helps. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance.  

 

 

     

[gmoney 4,462]

On 8/19/2019 at 4:04 PM, gmoney said:

They've also announced that they are creating supervisory type roles underneath management that my boss has told me I'm basically a shoe in for, so that's a silver lining. 

Just found out I got this!

[Monkee 1,053]

It’s been a bit of an emotional day for me... but in a good way.

Just over three years ago I was made redundant. It was extremely upsetting because I’d only been in the job a couple of months having got out of another job that had literally driven me into the ground. But I didn’t realise at the time that it was the best thing to ever happen to me. I got an interim job in a pub and met the best people and made great friends.

It was almost a year later when I finally got a job that ticked all the boxes for me - it was closer to home, doing a bit of everything I enjoyed, and it was doing something that’s actually meaningful. I started working for a local children’s hospice. 

It was a bit daunting as I’d never worked in the charity sector and I thought a hospice was somewhere grim and full of death. I was totally wrong on that last part. It’s the complete opposite. It’s so full of joy and life and laughs. Not once have I woken up in the morning and not wanted to go to work.

Over the last two years we’ve been building a purpose-built hospice specifically for children. There isn’t one in North London. There are hospices that cater for children but they also care for adults too. The staff moved into the building in July and it is absolutely incredible. And seeing the joy on parents’ faces watching their children is just amazing.

Today we had the grand opening. It was opened by Sadiq Khan, Hugo Lloris and Jenna Schillaci. It was just a brilliant day. So many families were there and all the children got to play in the inclusive playground. There’s a wheelchair accessible swing, roundabout, see-saw and even a trampoline for wheelchairs. It meant ALL the children including brothers and sisters could actually play on the same things at the same time as each other.

It’s been a lot of hard work to get here and there’s more work to do to hire more staff and open more facilities but I love my job. I’ve been a bit emotional this evening looking at all the photos I’ve taken today and we were featured on both BBC London and ITV London news.

This is a long post but I just wanted to share my feelings. There are actually jobs out there that you can really love doing.

Also, if you feel like supporting, please give us a follow on social media - we’re Noah’s Ark Children’s Hospice on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. I’m the digital marketing manager so you’ll be boosting my targets if you do ❤️ Thanks for reading.

 

[King Pitcos 2,961]

Congrats, Monkee! But I want to hear more about this: 

44 minutes ago, Monkee said:

another job that had literally driven me into the ground.

What was this job??