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The Why Don't You Get a Job Thread


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On 10/4/2018 at 12:28 AM, Juan Manforce said:

I've started looking for new work for what feels like the millionth time since I started my current job last May. I work in PPI complaints so there's only around a year of the job even existing, and I've been trying to get ahead of the game by getting out early. The turnover rate in my office is ridiculously high, so clearly other people have the same idea.The job recently completely changed, the bank having spent millions developing a horrible piece of software "to make the job easier" that they're too stubborn to admit is too buggy/flawed in general to be getting used.

Today, for the second time in under two months, I nearly quit. The first time was the day after I'd had an anxiety attack, brought on by the stress of struggling to adapt to the hugely increased workload, I was having an informal meeting with my team leader where I explained the situation, and how I was struggling but still trying my hardest. A senior manager then barged into the room, told me to stop being so negative about the new system, and reminded me that I was "just a contractor". For fear of retaliation I haven't, but I could have filed a complaint about that considering I've disclosed my anxiety issues and threatening my job based on that breaches the Equality Act. Instead I just kept my head down and got on with doing the job. I was good it at before they changed it, and it didn't take long before things clicked again.

Cut to today, and I got pulled into a meeting with my team leader and another senior manager. Over the past week I've had a lot of "QC fails" - people check our work and if we've done something wrong, we get a fail - due to faults with the new software, where files haven't been transferring from my computer to the network drive until after the QCs have checked the work. I appealed these fails, and my team leader assured me they would get overturned because I could prove I had done things I was failed for not doing. So imagine my surprise today when this other manager accuses me of lying about the files being there, asking me point blank if I was trying to "defraud the system" by moving the files manually after getting fails. I fully explained my side of the story, but I had to answer the same question several times before he started to believe me. My team leader, who had all of the evidence to back my claims up, didn't say a word to stick up for me. Eventually it came down to the manager realising this was probably a problem with the software, but only after me asserting that I had proof I was doing the work right. It doesn't seem like this situation is over, and I'm probably likely to undergo scrutiny from more than one manager for something that's entirely not my fault. As soon as I left the meeting I told my team leader to put me down for a half shift today, because I was feeling sick. I missed out the end of the sentence, that being "... and tired of all the fucking bullshit in here." They trust me to train new people and do pre-QC checks (without any extra pay, of course), but they don't trust my word?

I turn 30 in two weeks and I feel like I'm at a complete standstill. I have no career prospects to speak of - I had recently applied for a promotion to QC but it seems that they're the ones who originally accused me of trying to cheat their system, so I think I'll withdraw my application so I'm not stuck with a bunch of cunts who've already tried to cost me my job - and I don't even know what I want to do with my life. I have a degree in filmmaking and screenwriting, but as well as that not being helpful for getting a job in Glasgow, I don't want to deal with that industry any more after getting a closer look at some of the inner workings. I've fallen into finance because it was easy and apparently I'm good at it, but I don't have the right qualifications to do anything more specific within the field, and I don't have the money to fund any further studies. I'm still applying for 'finance assistant' and similar jobs, but I seem to never hear back from 99% of things I apply for. The only thing I've got potentially lined up is a trainee accountancy job, which applications closed for nearly a month ago, but they've sent a couple of e-mail updates that they're still sorting through the high volume of applications. Which doesn't fill me with a lot of hope, because I can't imagine I really stand out.

Rant over. Rut, sadly not.

 

On 10/4/2018 at 3:55 AM, Your Fight Site said:

Was let go from my job Monday after returning from a week’s holiday. After 8 months they’ve decided, “it’s not working out”.

I feel fed up. I wasn’t enjoying the job so not upset I no longer have it, but was sticking it out so I didn’t have a short tenure on my CV. But now I’m jobless, don’t know whether to look for another one or go back to freelance full time, or whether to start looking at jobs abroad (Barcelona and Amsterdam are high on my list) as I really don’t want to be in the UK any more. Brexit literally makes me want to run a mile from Britain. 

 

As someone who could relate to both situations in the past I have a lot of sympathy for you both. I sacked off the UK back in 2013, made the decision about a year earlier. Did some quick training to teach English and ended up loving it, now doing proper qualifications to cement me in this career path for the long term as I really can't think of anything i'd enjoy more day to day. There's loads of work overseas if you look at the right areas and the quality of life is usually a lot fucking better. I'd seriously advise you to consider it if you haven't got anything tying you to the UK. Your family and friends will support you and if it doesnt work out you can always come back.

 

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On 10/3/2018 at 9:55 PM, Your Fight Site said:

Was let go from my job Monday after returning from a week’s holiday. After 8 months they’ve decided, “it’s not working out”.

I feel fed up. I wasn’t enjoying the job so not upset I no longer have it, but was sticking it out so I didn’t have a short tenure on my CV. But now I’m jobless, don’t know whether to look for another one or go back to freelance full time, or whether to start looking at jobs abroad (Barcelona and Amsterdam are high on my list) as I really don’t want to be in the UK any more. Brexit literally makes me want to run a mile from Britain. 

Same happened to me a couple of weeks back. After 6 months of my work being fine (and told so) I was told I was poor and had to go. I hated it but have a kid on the way so I stayed. The boss was a cunt, she came in 3 months ago for her first managerial position so tried to enforce power. She had been aggressive towards be taking time off for hospital appointments and or time off sick if I had a seizure. She also said I had no right to take 2 weeks off when my kid is born. I said that was not true and it was my legal right. I have made a complaint but doubt it will go anywhere. 

I will either end back at my old job or doing contract work for council street works departments. 

 

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After having a word about dropping to part time hours and being told I would slowly phase onto them over a couple of weeks, what's happened is they've dropped my hours only slightly and then stuck me on every single worst shift imaginable.

Of the 12 shifts between me asking for less hours and next week's rota, I have 8 closes. A close often being a 12-1am finish, some of which have been on my own. I'm in for every one of the busiest days of the week, massive 12 hour shifts left and right. 

Basically the exact reason I asked to drop hours, they've upped massively seemingly out of either spite or ignorance. I'm not sticking around, already applying elsewhere. In half a mind to selfishly just quit and be unemployed until I find somewhere else. 

It was worth a crack but I'm physically and emotionally destroyed after only a month, and despite promises to the contrary my shifts have gotten infinitely worse.

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After all the absolute shit of this year, the depression and anxiety and hospitals and not getting dream jobs and having to leave others because of cash got an email through this morning offering me a managers job for a shoe shop in town. Full time 9-5 3k pay increase on what I do now.

Honestly I'm crying worse than Gazza getting booked. Finally feel I can start making a life now.

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Sacked the Chef work off and went for an interview at HMV and got that today, start in November. Gives me 3 weeks off to finally play God of War and then I'm working somewhere with a good atmosphere, products I know and a decent closing time. 

Don't regret giving it a go, but I worked 24 hours over 2 days this past week. Some people might enjoy that but I was ready to stick my head in the ovens.

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As noted in another thread, I am now unemployed. I am not statistically unemployed though, as I'm still also a student.
 

Anybody here ever claimed constructive dismissal against an ex employer? Put it this way: less than a week and a half after putting in writing and sending to my MD and the de-facto HR head a long and detailed explanation of my 15-plus year struggle with my mental health, as a way to sort of come clean about the amount of sickness absence I've had over the years and see if we could remove a few of the work related stressors that were contributing to a general deterioration of my mental health over a period of time, instead I'm now unemployed.

 

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I looked into unfair/wrongful dismissal a few months ago when I was let go from my last job for rather spurious reasons. I was doing support work, and the mother decided she'd rather put her own grown-up kids on the payroll to keep all the money in the family instead of paying for outside support. To do this, she had to fire people who were all told we "aren't the right person for the job going forwards", despite the fact that "going forwards" the job was going to involve exactly the same things we'd all been doing with no issues over the last couple of years. 

It turned out that in order to claim anything, you have to be employed by the person/company in question for a minimum of 24 months. Wouldn't you know it, I was let go 23 months into the job. It's almost as if they knew...

Still, fuck 'em. Took a couple of months off to piss about enjoying myself, and ended up with a couple of long-term agency contracts working with kids in SEN schools. Turn up, have a laugh with them, and bugger off home. No stress, no internal politics, decent pay, and guilt-free time off during school holidays. Delightful!

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6 hours ago, Bicurious Dad said:

What were the grounds for dismissal?

I wasn't dismissed. I gave notice. But am (potentially) claiming that it amounted to constructive dismissal for...a lot of reasons. I've sent an email off to a law firm who do initial "have you got an actual claim here?" checks on my story before anything further happens.

And yeah, the 23 months thing will probably kill it stone dead from the off as even though i was there over two and a half years, it wasn't continuous.

Edited by SpursRiot2012
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Well, as someone who has 5 years experience as a Union rep, I'd say given how they did loads to keep you, such as agreeing to reduced days, upping your salary to keep you, repositioning and inventing a new job to keep you from leaving, and when you did leave they couldn't get you back in quick enough, I'd say you've got no chance.

The above may not be entirely accurate but you've said on here how they've always done something to stop you from leaving.  Once they've showed that, providing it's all documented, you haven't got a case for constructive dismissal.  They're probably being awkward because they're pissed off with you after being so accommodating in the past.

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21 minutes ago, Keith Houchen said:

Well, as someone who has 5 years experience as a Union rep, I'd say given how they did loads to keep you, such as agreeing to reduced days, upping your salary to keep you, repositioning and inventing a new job to keep you from leaving, and when you did leave they couldn't get you back in quick enough, I'd say you've got no chance.

The above may not be entirely accurate but you've said on here how they've always done something to stop you from leaving.  Once they've showed that, providing it's all documented, you haven't got a case for constructive dismissal.  They're probably being awkward because they're pissed off with you after being so accommodating in the past.

This is all generally correct. And you're probably right. However, I certainly felt that a hostile work environment had been created from the moment I emailed the boss about my mental health issues because I had my doctor and psychotherapist saying - and me also saying - that part (a small part, but a part nonetheless) of the recent (year or so) deterioration of my mental health has not been helped by being giving the extra responsibility of managing the company CRM (they didnt create a new job - they dropped me into the middle of a complex, ongoing implementation process when the person they had hired to do it was mysteriously dismissed)  while also still having to hit the same sales target numbers on cold calls even though my sales days were essentially cut in half. As soon as I said that, they suddenly said that the CRM role was not permanent (directly contradicting previous statements to the contrary) and that, if I wasn't going to be able to fulfill my sales days, then they weren't sure how I could stay on.

Which would be fine except there was essentially zero discussion about ways in which I could continue to contribute to the company sales output without having to make cold calls. There was zero discussion, from a workplace wellbeing perspective, about the very detailed information I had given them about not only my ongoing mental health issues but also ongoing treatment for an opiate painkiller addiction - within a company where drug use and drug commerce, shall we say, is rampant. We had a meeting on Monday where I brought a signed doctors note explaining the reasons for missing three days the previous week, and signing me off for a further week, minimum. When the demon bitch office manager saw that, she immediately said I had to leave the building as we couldn't even have this meeting due to me being signed off sick for work (while the MD sat there wordlessly like he'd been hit in the head). She said we would have a meeting on my return to work next week. Ok. All good. Within ten minutes of my having left the building, they had removed my external access to work emails (either changed the password or deleted the account) and changed the passwords for every IT system the company uses, basically, because it can all be accessed externally. This was the same processes that was carried out the day my predecessor on the CRM management thing was mysteriously dismissed. To me, that was no coincidence - that was them making either an assumption that I wouldn't be coming back (no idea why they'd have any such assumption) or knowing that I wouldn't be back, even before I did. Emails between myself and the company were suddenly not between myself and the MD, as had been the case since forever, nor were they even between me and the only other director in the company, the sales director who happens to be a good friend of mine. They became only between myself and the office manager, they became immediately terse, especially as there were some issues around unpaid incentive bonuses that were owed to me and, all in all, I suddenly realised: they don't want me back. They don't want the headache of a mentally ill employee who might need time off here or there, or who might not be able to make 200 cold calls in a day (note that there were numerous ways - I counted about 11, including the CRM - that I would still have been justifying my paycheck even if they had to take out the cold calls. But the company is moving to a different model. When I started, we only hired experienced B2B BDMs. If you had no sales experience at all, you'd not even get a phone call. If you had some B2C experience, we might have test called you but they rarely worked out. Our whole USP was that we were the opposite of our competitors, who had banks of "sales agents" banging out hundreds of calls a day and booking meetings for their clients that were totally unqualified, with zero prospect for the client of a new business win. But at the end of each quarter they could say, well, our people got you 400 meetings. You got your monies worth. We were different because it was a small team, each BDM might manage two clients, three max depending on sales staff levels. We cultivated the shit out of these prospects for our clients. Every single scripted line was totally bespoke, based on the client goals for the campaign. I once spent six months bouncing between hour long calls in the US, Holland and here in the UK and finally, after doing my job well, and showing a persistence nobody at any of our competitors would ever think to show, I got our client a meeting with Unilever. I got them a meeting with the CTO of Unilever. This client was tiny, but had a good tech solution to labelling and such for retailers. Unilever now uses that client. I literally changed their business, and the fucking lives of the two dudes who ran the company. That contract made them so much money...holy shit.

But now, the company is moving to Old Street. Now they're advertising for Business Development Executive positions (so, sales agents) at a measly 18k basic. They're hiring graduates straight out of uni with zero knowledge, understanding or real care about what we do...or at least, what we used to do. The company is basically taking its competitors model - any old shlub on the phone banging out hundreds of calls a day is bound to get lucky a few times and when they stop getting lucky, well they now have those lovely call centre contracts where you can be let go with a week's notice for no reason at all (if you've been there more than three months - prior to that you don't even get the weeks notice). Their staff turnaround is going to be massive, because it always is in those environments, especially hiring just graduated students who for the most part just want a short term job until they find a job they studied for.

 

Sorry, I got way off track. None of that really has any baring on me leaving the company except for the fact that, coupled with everything i was getting from the company on my mental health issues and feeling pretty much unwanted and forced out, ultimately it's the direction of the company that led to me finally deciding to actually give my notice. I only have to give a week, but offered to work through November whenever they needed in order to handover on the CRM - they said they would consider my time off sick as my notice period and that I was done.

Legally, probably i wasn't constructively dismissed but I know and they know that they forced me out. When I went for that meeting on Monday, they'd already given my desk to some new BDE. They decided they didn't want me anymore, but they had no cause to dismiss me (I didn't have one of these contacts they're getting the new BDEs to sign). So they made me feel as uncomfortable and forced out as possible without actively saying they wanted me to quit.

If, however, the solicitor says he thinks I was, then I'll go with that. It doesn't matter if they had given me a gold plated boat once to stay, they're still capable of constructively dismissing me.

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Obviously you should go with what a solicitor advises and not what some berk on a wrestling forum says!

What's the timeline here?  Did things head south after you told them about your health?  Had you already handed in your notice at this point?  It sounds like they put you on Gardening leave when you gave them the doctors note, that's if you'd given your notice beforehand, so it would be standard procedure to take away access to their systems.  A lot of what they were doing sounds as if it could be explained away by restructuring the business.  This is pretty key as everyone who works there was affected and not just you.  They'd be pretty awful business wise if they were restructuring everything just to try and force you out.  So from my totally ignorant of the whole facts view, the access being revoked and the moving jobs and responsibilities won't hold any weight.

However, if the restructuring led to redundancies, there should have been a consultation period where everyone directly affected would have been kept in the loop and given the option of redundancy instead of a job that didn't suit them, there also should have been a probationary period for the employee to see if the role suited them.  I should stress that I haven't been involved with a redundancy consultation in an official capacity for a long time, so there is every chance the tories have changed the rules.

Another thing to be mindful of is if things were to get ugly, they can use things you've said against you.  For instance, have you accessed here or social media from their computers?  I noticed that you made a couple of disparaging remarks on your public Twitter about them and the whole scenario.  Also any posts on here about them, If you used their systems to do so they'll be able to see who you are on here and use that against you.  From what I remember you've always been complimentary about them, but still, it could be used against you.

TL;DR - Solicitors will know best, not a paranoid arsehole full of snide and TayTay gifs.

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