How the UKFF saw things...

[NEWM]

Bollocks, that's got to be some retroactive thinking, surely? Nobody would have reacted that way if it had been say...Edge or Christian in 2001, or even Matt or Jeff Hardy in 2002, coming of the back of their big tag runs. Bradshaw had a good few years in time and tenure on those guys too.

 

Bradshaw was a 'net hate figure forever. That lead the fury above the actual rationale you guys have suggested. Don't get me wrong, I was guilty of it too, I just think you're both sugar coating it a bit.

 

Yeah but Edge & Christian and The Hardys were alot more over than Bradshaw ever was at that point. Both had also had great matches and been parts of big mid card storylines/fueds. Bradshaw was part of a mid/lower card comedy act for the previous two years and then Bradshaw as a singles wrestler was an extremely boring and dull Hardcore Champion.

 

I would say that Bradshaw became a new hate figure only AFTER he became JBL. Because before then no one really gave much of a shit about him and then all of sudden he was a main eventer when he hadn't appeared to of deserved it.

 

Totally disagree on both counts. The APA would get Hardy/E&C pops as well, right up until they ran the gimmick into the ground in 2002 and again when they reformed in 2004. They weren't obviously in the big matches or as good at the big spots as those two teams, but as an act, they absolutely warranted their place on the card too.

 

And Bradshaw was a long-disliked figure being supposedly a big nasty bully to the WCW guys and being Undertaker's (also a net hate figure of the early 00s) bessie mate. "Don't drop the soap around Bradshaw", the latest sacked vanilla midget would say. Salivating IWC goons like me lapped that shit up.

 

And as it just got said, I don't think the character shift was that radical. He had that "Have More Money Now!" book out when he was still long haired Texan Bradshaw. I remember Raw Magazine doing the odd feature or two on his success with the stocks and shares too. It was by no means a well kept secret that he had all that as a big sideline to the wrestling.

[tom]

I was actually starting to become a fan of his work since he had returned prior to JBL but obviously he was, at best, in SmackDown's mid-card.

[Loki]

I remember he had a brief push as Brashaw on Raw that absolutely bombed. That was the cowbell era. Everyone hated him. When he died his hair and changed his name, everyone STILL hated him.

 

In fact, I don't remember anything really positive being said about JBL's title reign untill well after he retired, about the time he started bigging himseld up in the commentary booth. The matches he had as champ, with one notable exception, were uniformly terrible IIRC.

[Chest Rockwell]

I think a lot of people came around to share the sentiment that the character was a lot of fun but he still had shit matches, mostly.

[tom]

I think that sums it up nicely.

[NEWM]

I think a lot of people came around to share the sentiment that the character was a lot of fun but he still had shit matches, mostly.

 

Yeah, this would probably sum up my view by late-04. The matches often hummed, but I morbidly enjoyed the Memphis-y style finishes, especially because I had a feeling he would get all the way to Mania and I liked seeing him getting away with it. Sneaking through the December and January multi-man matches, the barbed wire cage etc were totally ridiculous but it became easier to see it as a lot of fun with such a cool challenger like Cena on the way and a very serious (and very fucking excellent) 'proper' top Title feud going on with Batista on Raw.

 

Plus, to give a bit of credit to him, once the rage of him being the top guy died down, he was undeniably a fantastic promo. A souped up old school heel.

[Loki]

His Falls Count Anywhere match with Cena was brilliant, even in the midst of actually hating him I had to give them that one. It was also in the midst of Cena's bad match era too, so it was even more of a miracle.

[Halitosis Romantic]

He had the nuts to goosestep in Germany - now THAT'S a heel.

[ThePhenom]

I think it would be unfair not mention his match with Eddie Guerrero at Judgment Day 2004. It's the best match of his title reign by far, and is one of my favourites from around that time. I think he is excellent, I'd do anything for them to try and bring him back to commentate with Michael Cole.

[tom]

I think it would be unfair not mention his match with Eddie Guerrero at Judgment Day 2004. It's the best match of his title reign by far, and is one of my favourites from around that time. I think he is excellent, I'd do anything for them to try and bring him back to commentate with Michael Cole.

Actually, this was the first match between the two that ended in a DQ where Eddie bled like a pig and kept hold of the title. Asides from a cracking cage match on SmackDown, I don't re-call JBL ever putting the title on the line against him. It's still a brilliant match but he didn't have the title at that point. JBL going all the way to WrestleMania with the strap meant that it was going to be a massive deal for whoever could de-throne him which is why it was such a shame that the Cena match went short and felt a little flat at its conclusion. It still, of course, helped Cena a lot but fate conspired to deny us a more sizeable and dramatic title moment on the same night that HHH helped Batista become a major superstar.

[JNLister]

Bollocks, that's got to be some retroactive thinking, surely? Nobody would have reacted that way if it had been say...Edge or Christian in 2001, or even Matt or Jeff Hardy in 2002, coming of the back of their big tag runs. Bradshaw had a good few years in time and tenure on those guys too.

 

Bradshaw was a 'net hate figure forever. That lead the fury above the actual rationale you guys have suggested. Don't get me wrong, I was guilty of it too, I just think you're both sugar coating it a bit.

 

There's no way of telling how people would have reacted to the examples you give. Edge & Christian in 2001 got pushed to solid I-C level and most people seemed to think that was about. In any case, it's hardly comparable -- the guys you mention had been in high-profile, well received matches and gathered crowd support.

 

The time and tenure thing doesn't necessarily work that way. If JBL had been a newish guy, his push would have been more credible/acceptable. The longer he'd been there the more more he was established as a run of the mill guy and, more importantly, with no upwards momentum. I can't even think of a memorable match of JBL's before the Guerrero feud, and he was known mainly for comedy skits.

 

Sure, the fact that JBL wasn't a net fave when he got the title meant people weren't prepared to give the push the benefit of the doubt, but that doubt was pretty understandable.

 

It's also worth remembering that at this stage it hadn't been fully established that regardless of which belt it was, the Smackdown title was the B title and/or utterly worthless. Instead of seeing it as a throwaway belt, people were still thinking of it as much as the old WWF title as a secondary title, so he was being compared to previous champions. Even now, you look back at a list of WWE champions (and even taking into account how he grew into the role), he's still the first guy who stands out as really becoming champion out of absolutely nowhere -- even more so when you discount the genuinely transitional champs.