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Game of Thrones: book thread


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So book fans (well pretty much everyone) are freaking out at the newest episode.

 

*tonights episode spoilers!*

 

So I saw it coming last week but it was still fucking brutal. Personally I could have done without Sansa's screams at the end. Book readers are complaining that this doesn't happen in the books but I see a few problems with that criticism. Firstly it does happen but just with a different character and in the books it's a million times more brutal and disgusting. But I suppose because it doesn't happen to a main character that people care about a brutal rape isn't as big a deal? Secondly, in the books Sansa does absolutely fucking nothing in 5 & 6. And in the sample chapter for her in the latest book she does fuck all in that too. The character needs some urgency and stakes so it makes sense to streamline the plots into one for the purpose of time constraints and viewer investment. And thirdly GRRM has promised a controversial Sansa chapter in the next book which is probably a rape so if the books actually do ever come out it'll probably turn out that the show was faithful after all.

 

While I'm enjoying this season so far it is probably the weakest one so far. It all seems a bit scattered and erratic but I think that going to come with the pains of trying to get one season of worthwhile TV out of 3 huge, unwieldy and overstuffed texts that desperately needed editing. If anything I think next season where they don't have the constraints of sticking to the books and just have a story outline to work off it'll probably be a good thing.

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There have been many deviations from the books throughout the series. A Lot of them for the better I think. The awesome Karl Tanner from series 4 for example. The stuff with Jaime and Bronn in Dorne, Jorah's current predicament and of course Ramsay and Sansa. It's good that the series can be different from the books.

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Speaking as someone who's unbelievably sick and tired of rape as a device in fiction, to the point it usually sours me on something completely, as it's such a lazy shortcut of creating evil male characters and damaged, vengeful female characters, I didn't have a problem with it. In Game of Thrones, the faux-medieval setting, and constant brutality, lends itself to rape being pretty commonplace, and in a horrible way, it would have been less believable had Ramsey not taken her. In that world, the kind of shit-smeared, lawless environment Dapper Laughs would have fucking loved, it's not seen as the horrendous thing it is in real life, because women have no voice there. There's no Westeros #yesallmen hashtag. Look at the rape culture we have in the real world. If this was all knights and horses and no Operation Yewtree, 3/4 of all men would probably be at it all the time.

 

Fucking hated when they changed Jamie and Cersei's encounter by Joff's corpse into a rape though. That one was utterly needless -- I think because Jamie wasn't the tweener he is in the books, and they felt he was becoming too popular with the audience -- and should have been really character changing. And in the end, it was just brushed off and not even referred to, with Cersei not remotely damaged or bothered by it after.

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I love it when people spaz out about things getting changed in film/TV from books. I'm fairly sure it says 'Based On...' Not 'A Carbon Copy Of...'

 

Especially when it's a series that would be impossible to adapt into a TV show without making changes. What'd be the point in spending money casting Jeyne Pool when Sansa would just be sitting about doing nothing?

 

I understand why people disliked the scene, because it was horrible to watch, but that was sort of the point of it. The only real difference it makes in the short term is that Stannis will be fighting to an actual Stark daughter, not an imposter.

 

The only thing I found odd is that she married Ramsay, despite being still married to Tyrion. I'm assuming I missed a line somewhere explaining it.

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Fucking hated when they changed Jamie and Cersei's encounter by Joff's corpse into a rape though. That one was utterly needless -- I think because Jamie wasn't the tweener he is in the books, and they felt he was becoming too popular with the audience -- and should have been really character changing. And in the end, it was just brushed off and not even referred to, with Cersei not remotely damaged or bothered by it after.

The bizarre thing is, after reading a couple of interviews, they weren't actually trying to bring that scene across as rape (which makes sense as it's not rape in the book and as you say they completely brush it off thereafter). They clearly failed massively as it was more of a rape than the Sansa/Ramsey one.

 

The only thing I found odd is that she married Ramsay, despite being still married to Tyrion. I'm assuming I missed a line somewhere explaining it.

You did miss something- Roose Bolton said that as Sansa and Tyrion failed to consummate their marriage it was annulled.

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The only thing I found odd is that she married Ramsay, despite being still married to Tyrion. I'm assuming I missed a line somewhere explaining it.

You did miss something- Roose Bolton said that as Sansa and Tyrion failed to consummate their marriage it was annulled.

 

 

Annulled by who though? The High Sparrow is in King's Landing, as is Tommen, and neither were likely to do it. It seems a bit of a stretch that Roose being the Warden of the North gives him the authority to absolve people of their vows to the Seven. I suppose it's one way to get where they needed to go but it feels really lazy.

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The only thing I found odd is that she married Ramsay, despite being still married to Tyrion. I'm assuming I missed a line somewhere explaining it.

You did miss something- Roose Bolton said that as Sansa and Tyrion failed to consummate their marriage it was annulled.

Annulled by who though? The High Sparrow is in King's Landing, as is Tommen, and neither were likely to do it. It seems a bit of a stretch that Roose being the Warden of the North gives him the authority to absolve people of their vows to the Seven. I suppose it's one way to get where they needed to go but it feels really lazy.

I don't think much attention gets paid to the admin side of things in Westeros

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Not so fussed about changing stuff from the books but the problem I had with the rape scene is summed up by comments in the not book thread

 

 

 

That last scene was very uncomfortable viewing, they really know how to make you hate the bad guys, will be good seeing Theon/Reek get his inevitable revenge on Ramsay.

 

Feels like this was their intention, rape was used to get over Ramsay being an evil guy and to make you want Theon to take revenge (and somewhat to spur him into action). The person being raped doesn't factor into it so much (obviously I could be mistaken and they'll deal with Sansa's reaction to this plenty but they haven't exactly worried much about the rapee in the past)

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