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NXT - Post NXT Takeover discussion in progress

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Entertaining as an MMA fan reading how Riddle and the Horsewomen are doing in NXT. 

Riddle was always a goofy, stoner, idiot type in the UFC. He seemed a total cretin when he first appeared on The Ultimate Fighter. He was usually in very entertaining fights though. I've some of his indy work and really enjoyed it tbh. He seems like one of those 'wake and bake' permanently stoned guys. If weed is still banned by the WWE, I can see that hindering him alot/being his downfall.

Shayna Bazler in MMA came across like an annoying, smug, bully with an overly high opinion of herself. She was most famous for taking a nasty beating of Cris Cyborg in EliteXC 10 years back. She was washed up by the time she got to the UFC and got wrecked there. Including a rather amusing The Ultimate Fighter appearance where she spent a whole episode saying her opponent was rubbish then got her ass kicked. Her comeuppance came rather quickly in the UFC. Its amusing [like Riddle] she is basically playing herself and its working. From what I've seen she is very good in and out of the ring. I think she would have stood out even without the Rousey link.

The other two Horsewomen were total non enitys in MMA.  Duke was a skinny punching bag. Shafir I still don't really have a clue about other than she was Rousey's sparring partner. The whole four MMA Horsewomen thing was abit of a joke in the UFC tbh as Rousey was so far ahead of the others. It would be like if the real Horsemen was Ric Flair and three jobbers. Duke and Shafir just seem like they are there as they are Rousey's mates. Could work though if they can pick things up as quck as Ronda and Shayna and they will certainly get a wrestling vs MMA horsewomen angle out of it but both seem to lack Rondas star power or Shaynas natural heel charisma.

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To be fair to Riddle, he’s just started, I think I’m going to give him a chance. 

What I want is for Shayna to get the call up, tease the horsewomen thing and for her to turn instantly becoming Rhondas natural nemesis. 

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Yeah, I'm more invested in a potential Ronda vs. Shayna match than faffing about with "The Horsewomen". I don't think anyone is remotely invested in the other two as anything other than making up the numbers, and the days of Sasha Banks and Bayley being seen as part of the upper echelon of the women's division in order to make the "pro-wrestling Four Horsemen" side of the angle work are long gone. 

Of the lot of them, Ronda's the draw, Becky's the one capturing people's attention, Charlotte's the golden girl, and Shayna's the villain. Everyone else would just be getting in the way.

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31 minutes ago, BomberPat said:

Yeah, I'm more invested in a potential Ronda vs. Shayna match than faffing about with "The Horsewomen". I don't think anyone is remotely invested in the other two as anything other than making up the numbers, and the days of Sasha Banks and Bayley being seen as part of the upper echelon of the women's division in order to make the "pro-wrestling Four Horsemen" side of the angle work are long gone. 

Of the lot of them, Ronda's the draw, Becky's the one capturing people's attention, Charlotte's the golden girl, and Shayna's the villain. Everyone else would just be getting in the way.

Absolutely bang on.

I still think there’s some really good possible scope for both Asuka and Bliss, (edit - and Cross) even if they are more the fodder, but work needs to be done.

Everyone else is midcard at best and as you say, in the way.

Edited by Kaz Hayashi

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On 11/18/2018 at 3:19 AM, bigfoote said:

Can I just put a word in for how "active" the refs were, from visuals in the Ciampa match to Drake being a boss in the opener and the main. Saving Cole's shins on the cannonball spot, chekcing the table was fixed 2nd time around, and tidying up.

Drake is the best referee in the world right now. I'm impressed by him every single match.

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I really hope they don't give Riddle the RVD treatment and just have his whole character be 'laid back stoner who says '"Bro" and wears flip flops'.

I think I'm going to scale back the indy love in this too, as whenever one of those guys makes his/her debut I'm always astonished at the negative response in this thread. I know a lot of you are going in with a blank slate on a lot of these guys and the likes of me saying "Oh indyname21 is so bloody good!" is going to do more harm than good.

Look at the reactions to Keith Lee on here for instance; I doubt it would be as negative if no one was chatting about how much he killed it pre-WWE. He'd just be a guy with no rep and would impress easily. I think people having a go at Matt Riddle has sorta sealed the deal with that.

I see it as more an issue with the presentation and WWE style. Hideo Itami was/is being labeled as a bad wrestler because he struggles to get along with the WWE way of working. Fucking KENTA being labeled as bad because he can't get into the groove of always working the hardcam, unnecessarily slowing things down and slapping on a chinlock because we're about to go into adverts.

This is not a slight against WWE, but their style isn't the be-all end-all. It's argubaly the style that will earn you more money but being unable to work within their mechanics isn't a mark on your skill as a wrestler (including character work and promos).  A wrestler not being able to work that way doesn't make them bad, the same way a wrestler not grasping the core structure of lucha libre doesn't make them bad.

Anyway, Takeover was great! Dream/Ciampa really surprised me and I bit on a couple of the near falls. Everything else was splendid also. Riddle going for the kill within seconds was telegraphed from the start (he's done the quick-kill a few times when entering a new promotion) but it was entertaining never the less. Brilliant seeing Pete Dunne close at the show atop of the cage. 

 

Edited by Accident Prone

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1 hour ago, Accident Prone said:

Look at the reactions to Keith Lee on here for instance; I doubt it would be as negative if no one was chatting about how much he killed it pre-WWE. He'd just be a guy with no rep and would impress easily. I think people having a go at Matt Riddle has sorta sealed the deal with that.

I think that is fair to be honest, and I can't stand Keith Lee.

I was actually excited with Riddle coming in, I haven't seen a great deal of his work but his debut on NXT TV wasn't great I thought. I also think this "Bro" shtick will get annoying very quickly.

Loved the quick finish at Takeover though, credit to Ohno for selling it like a champ too.

I both can't wait, and am dreading the day Velveteen Dream gets called up. What a talent he is, he should be the next megastar for the company, I have a feeling though he won't be.

Big thumbs up for the whole show, I haven't seen Survivor Series yet but once again I'm thinking after a Takeover event "how on earth can the main roster follow that?"

At a guess, they won't.

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Between Takeover and what little I've seen of Survivor Series, I'm dreading them having Velveteen Dream reduced to wearing a generic branded T-shirt over his regular gear, rather than having the freedom/control to dress differently every show, and to dress plausibly for the gimmick.

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Ciampa-Dream was the absolute shit wasn't it? Superb effort by both.

Despite not being a massive fan of anyone in the main event, bar Dunne and Ricochet, I thought it was loads of fun, if a bit long.

Ranallo continues to absolutely ruin NXT for me. I think I'd actually prefer Mark Lawrenson than him. Cringe moments this time:

"Holy bleep"

"Mama effing Mia"

"Cirque de Ricochet"

and the worst "Pete Dunne is a vegan but he enjoys finger food when it's his opponents digits" ????? all said in that shouty-I-must-get-everything-over style. Gonna have to mute it next time. I can't stand him. 

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The weirdest thing about Mauro's announcing was, at the opening of the show, he was just bellowing his entire spiel directly into Nigel McGuinness' face rather than looking at the camera.

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7 hours ago, Cousin Jim Bob said:

 

Shayna Bazler in MMA came across like an annoying, smug, bully with an overly high opinion of herself. She was most famous for taking a nasty beating of Cris Cyborg in EliteXC 10 years back. She was washed up by the time she got to the UFC and got wrecked there. Including a rather amusing The Ultimate Fighter appearance where she spent a whole episode saying her opponent was rubbish then got her ass kicked. Her comeuppance came rather quickly in the UFC. Its amusing [like Riddle] she is basically playing herself and its working. From what I've seen she is very good in and out of the ring. I think she would have stood out even without the Rousey link.

The other two Horsewomen were total non enitys in MMA.  Duke was a skinny punching bag. Shafir I still don't really have a clue about other than she was Rousey's sparring partner. The whole four MMA Horsewomen thing was abit of a joke in the UFC tbh as Rousey was so far ahead of the others. It would be like if the real Horsemen was Ric Flair and three jobbers. Duke and Shafir just seem like they are there as they are Rousey's mates. Could work though if they can pick things up as quck as Ronda and Shayna and they will certainly get a wrestling vs MMA horsewomen angle out of it but both seem to lack Rondas star power or Shaynas natural heel charisma.

I can't like Shayna purely because of her MMA run.She literally kept calling herself a pioneer so much to the point that people actually started to believe it.

 

i'm sorry but she was the drizzling sh!ts.

 

Look at her record. I know wins are not everything but she bottled it every time. That TUF episode of the prime example, even after she lost she moaned that she knows was better.

 

I hate the fact that pro wrestling fans who know nothing about MMA don't realise that her claims to be being a 'MMA legend' are not that different from val venis claiming to be a Porn Star.

If she never met Ronda she would stacking shelves for a living right now.

At least Duke had that awesome fight in TUF and as built herself up a small fan base through Twitch.

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I couldn't really give a shit what Shayna has or hasn't achieved in MMA. In wrestling, she's the dog's bollocks, and the best heel they have.

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Did a 180 on Gargano, the match wasn’t for me stylistically speaking  but Gargano nailed it. Dream/Ciampa was my motn. Another step towards Dream being the Real Deal, he looked fantastic here. Ciampa is a great guy for him to mix it up with.

Ricochet is a man of wonders but somebody tell that boy never try trash talking again.

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8 hours ago, Accident Prone said:

I really hope they don't give Riddle the RVD treatment and just have his whole character be 'laid back stoner who says '"Bro" and wears flip flops'.

I think I'm going to scale back the indy love in this too, as whenever one of those guys makes his/her debut I'm always astonished at the negative response in this thread. I know a lot of you are going in with a blank slate on a lot of these guys and the likes of me saying "Oh indyname21 is so bloody good!" is going to do more harm than good.

Look at the reactions to Keith Lee on here for instance; I doubt it would be as negative if no one was chatting about how much he killed it pre-WWE. He'd just be a guy with no rep and would impress easily. I think people having a go at Matt Riddle has sorta sealed the deal with that.

I see it as more an issue with the presentation and WWE style. Hideo Itami was/is being labeled as a bad wrestler because he struggles to get along with the WWE way of working. Fucking KENTA being labeled as bad because he can't get into the groove of always working the hardcam, unnecessarily slowing things down and slapping on a chinlock because we're about to go into adverts.

This is not a slight against WWE, but their style isn't the be-all end-all. It's argubaly the style that will earn you more money but being unable to work within their mechanics isn't a mark on your skill as a wrestler (including character work and promos).  A wrestler not being able to work that way doesn't make them bad, the same way a wrestler not grasping the core structure of lucha libre doesn't make them bad.

Anyway, Takeover was great! Dream/Ciampa really surprised me and I bit on a couple of the near falls. Everything else was splendid also. Riddle going for the kill within seconds was telegraphed from the start (he's done the quick-kill a few times when entering a new promotion) but it was entertaining never the less. Brilliant seeing Pete Dunne close at the show atop of the cage. 

 

I get what you're saying but I don't think it's that exactly.  To succeed in the WWE, you need more than just timing in the ring.  You need a bunch of complex imponderables, that NXT is actually set up to teach you.  Not everyone as you say is going to be able to swim at this level.

Everyone said Ricochet was amazing before he came in, and all he's done is impress.  He's shown charisma, character, he fits into the NXT style brilliantly.  So it's perfectly possible to come in with a big rep and succeed.

It's also very possible to get a fantastic rep on the Indies and not actually be that good, and unfortunately that tends to get exposed when you end up in WWE on the biggest stage.  If you're smart, you soak up everything you can at the PC and get better.  Riddle is very clearly, to me anyway, a work in progress.  If he knows this, and applies himself he'll be fine.  If he believes the hype, it might not work out.

 

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It's great to see guys like Ricochet come in with no ego and a willingness to learn and grow despite the success they've had already. And he has grown in the short time he's been around in NXT. Same with the UE guys for example. They do get some great opportunities for training and learning from some of the best. Sure a lot of them would be solid additions straight on TV but they're all looking to better themselves.

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