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Over and Underachievers


IANdrewDiceClay

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That John Morrison never managed to put it all together and become the star he could have been makes me sad. With his look and unique physical abilities he should have been something special. The back-and-forth over whose fault it was he never got there has been done to death, but it's a real shame someone like Shawn Michaels didn't take a liking to him and take him under his wing. I was convinced he was going to be a big deal.

 

Similarly, watching TNA in 2006 I thought Alex Shelley was going to be the next Chris Jericho. 6 years later I'm not entirely sure what went wrong. He never got any kind of big break. Even TNA didn't really push him or give him much to work with. WWE never showed any interest as far as I'm aware. But unlike with Morrison, I really don't know why. Shelley's always been over, he's got a cool unique look, he's reliable and exciting in the ring, comfortable and funny on the microphone...apart from size he's not really missing anything. But he's never done all that much. He's just been there, having good matches but not being involved in any particularly significant storylines. The same could be said of Chris Sabin, although to a lesser degree, and TNA did much more with him as a singles guy early in his career. Don't get me wrong, they've been given tag titles and so on, and plenty of opportunity to show what they can do in the ring, but there's never been much sense of forward momentum, or a really important angle to get their teeth stuck into. Shelley was a better established character half a decade ago when he was dicking about with Big Kev. Unless something drastic happens soon he's never going to be a player.

 

I'll have Christian as a massive overachiever. He's held World titles in WWE and TNA, along with god alone knows how many tag and secondary belts, despite being a skinny little goat-faced man with a midcard moveset and no obvious USP's. Sure he's a very talented all-rounder, but he hardly had 'future main eventer' written across him when he appeared on the scene.

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I'll have Christian as a massive overachiever. He's held World titles in WWE and TNA, along with god alone knows how many tag and secondary belts, despite being a skinny little goat-faced man with a midcard moveset and no obvious USP's. Sure he's a very talented all-rounder, but he hardly had 'future main eventer' written across him when he appeared on the scene.

 

Don't agree with this. Personally, he was always my favourate over Edge. He certainly has a better moveset than edge and the only real reason I think he got the rub over Christian early on was because he was bigger. Charisma wise they were on par, but how long did it take edge to find a signiture move and stick with it? Christian has had the same good looking finish for almost all of his WWE run.

 

When Christian turned heel on Edge, he was the bollocks. The Intercontinental title fitted him like a glove, he had a new awesome entrance and had Rhyno as back up. That was a winning formula they should have ran with, but after he lost the title to Edge (rightly so), it all went to shit for him...until 2005 when he started being awesome again, then the WWE just let him go when he was on fire. Since then, although he's always been OK, I've struggled to find him as interesting as the earlier part of his career.

 

So I think you could argue that he Under-acheived. He could have done so much more earlier in his career, which could have lead to him being a big time player for a lot longer. But thems the breaks i suppose.

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That John Morrison never managed to put it all together and become the star he could have been makes me sad. With his look and unique physical abilities he should have been something special. The back-and-forth over whose fault it was he never got there has been done to death, but it's a real shame someone like Shawn Michaels didn't take a liking to him and take him under his wing. I was convinced he was going to be a big deal.

I don't think the in-ring work was ever the biggest issue personally. I don't think he even needed a mentor like Michaels or anything, just to tighten up some of his stuff and get a better finisher, and he would be fine in ring.

 

I'd compare him to Shelton Benjamin in terms of sadly not having the personality or acting skills to get by, and I'm not sure that's something that either of them can ever overcome. They're just fucking boring. Morrison's best shot was always as a cocky heel rather than face.

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With his limited talent this man totally over achieved

 

Lex-Luger.jpg

 

Not that there's anything wrong with it

Limited talent or not, this man was involved in a number of exciting matches in the late-1980s and early-1990s. Lex Luger could be carried to great matches by Ric Flair (yes, he could do THE Ric Flair match) or Ricky Steamboat, but he could also have great matches against other not-so-good workers such as Michael Hayes (US title series) and was very over with the crowd. Lex Luger is more in the category "underrated" than "over achiever".

 

Goldberg and Warrior were over achievers and under achievers. They became bigger stars than their talents suggested, but then they did not achieve as much as they should considering how big stars they became.

 

Someone mentioned that Mr Anderson/Kennedy is an under achiever. A mediocre wrestler with a catch phrase that caught on for a period. When that act got old, what else did he have to offer? Not so much...

 

Tom Magee was an under achiever. Vince McMahon thought he had found his "Hulk Hogan replacement" and wanted to push this guy to the moon. With a great look and athletic skills (standing shooting star press as his ring entrance: Youtube), one would have expected him to rise above dark matches and a couple of TV squashes. His name pops up in WWE results from 1986 until 1989. When he started to lose matches against Tim Horner in 1989, it was clear that even Vince McMahon had given up his hopes of making Tom Magee a superstar.

02.jpg

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Kenny Dykstra is a massive underachiever.

 

Great look, great skills, signed at an early age and pretty much the focus point of the Spirit Squad has since faded into obscurity. I thought he'd be Main Eventing by around 2009.

 

2006 was awesome for Kenny. Tag Champ, fueding with Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair, I remember him wrestling John Cena for the WWE Title on Raw and hitting his leg drop finisher for a near fall too, wrestling Triple H on PPV (Vengeance)

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I'd have Jeff Hardy down as an overacheiver. Talented for sure; but I never thought he'd be a main event guy at any point.

 

Underachiever - Colt Cabana. Tremendous worker who decided that he just wanted to be a comedy guy. For anyone who's only ever seen Cabana do comedy schtick, try and get hold of his match with James Gibson in 2005.

 

Underachiever - Samoa Joe. Not in ROH obviously, but at one point it looked like he was going to be the future of the business, now he's pretty much had it - doesn't want to leave TNA due to the money, but knows the company will never do anything with him.

 

Paul London - I guess some people might have him down as overachiver due to his WWE Tag title run, but the fact that his greatest ever match is still the one he had with Dragon in 2003 tells you about his career progression.

 

Underachiver - Lo-Ki. Been kicked out of just about every company he's worked for. Shitty attitude has always held him back.

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Tom Magee was an under achiever. Vince McMahon thought he had found his "Hulk Hogan replacement" and wanted to push this guy to the moon. With a great look and athletic skills (standing shooting star press as his ring entrance: Youtube), one would have expected him to rise above dark matches and a couple of TV squashes. His name pops up in WWE results from 1986 until 1989. When he started to lose matches against Tim Horner in 1989, it was clear that even Vince McMahon had given up his hopes of making Tom Magee a superstar.

02.jpg

 

I'd never heard of him, I just looked him up and he came 2nd in the world's strongest man in 1982! And he can shooting star press way back then and his physique is incredible! What went wrong, he really seems amazing.

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Tom Magee was an under achiever. Vince McMahon thought he had found his "Hulk Hogan replacement" and wanted to push this guy to the moon. With a great look and athletic skills (standing shooting star press as his ring entrance: Youtube), one would have expected him to rise above dark matches and a couple of TV squashes. His name pops up in WWE results from 1986 until 1989. When he started to lose matches against Tim Horner in 1989, it was clear that even Vince McMahon had given up his hopes of making Tom Magee a superstar.

02.jpg

 

I'd never heard of him, I just looked him up and he came 2nd in the world's strongest man in 1982! And he can shooting star press way back then and his physique is incredible! What went wrong, he really seems amazing.

 

Isn't he the guy who Bret Hart made to look a million dollars which lead to Vince's comment about finding the new Hogan, only to discover without Bret the guy didn't actually have much in the tank.

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Tom Magee was an under achiever. Vince McMahon thought he had found his "Hulk Hogan replacement" and wanted to push this guy to the moon. With a great look and athletic skills (standing shooting star press as his ring entrance: Youtube), one would have expected him to rise above dark matches and a couple of TV squashes. His name pops up in WWE results from 1986 until 1989. When he started to lose matches against Tim Horner in 1989, it was clear that even Vince McMahon had given up his hopes of making Tom Magee a superstar.

02.jpg

He's classed as one of the worst wrestlers to ever step in the ring, though. Up there with El Gigante. He's an overachiever for the fact he lasted past his first few matches. He had a legendary match where Bret Hart wrestled himself, but after that, they couldnt believe it was the same bloke.

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He's classed as one of the worst wrestlers to ever step in the ring, though. Up there with El Gigante. He's an overachiever for the fact he lasted past his first few matches. He had a legendary match where Bret Hart wrestled himself, but after that, they couldnt believe it was the same bloke.

 

:laugh: It figures he was shit in the ring or he would've got somewhere. I guess I shouldn't've judged him purely on that one photo and reading about how strong he is!

 

How the fuck can someone that strong and agile fuck up at actually being any good in the ring, did he even train?

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Underachievers

 

Marty Jannetty. Got 6 great months out of him as a singles star. If he had his head screwed on we could have got a decade or more. I don't think we saw anything in him to suggest he would've matched HBK and been a main eventer, but he could easily have been one of the best midcard, IC title level guys throughout most of the 90s, even into the 00s.

 

Carl Pierre Oulette. Loads of fun in-ring, spectacular and entertaining, and he seemed pretty charismatic despite not talking much. Should have had a much more illustrious career than the dribs and drabs of his stints in the big 2. Again, he probably wasn't going to be main eventing PPVs or anytihng, but he was definitely good enough to sustain that position he reached in his feud with Bret for a few years.

 

Jake Roberts. Speaks for itself really. Fine through the 80s until the end of his WWF run (wished he had been given a run with the IC belt though). After that, his descent into self destruction was startling, and just as he was starting to enjoy the reward of being pushed as a top guy. Now he was no spring chicken by that point granted, but his stock was as high as it had ever been, he was amazing in his heel character, and he could easily have given us another 4 or 5 years or so towards the top of the cards if he'd kept in good condition. It's a shame how it all panned out.

 

Adam Bomb. Ok, he was no Bret Hart, but he had a lot going for him. He was big, imposing, athletic, had a good look and gimmick for the time, and done loads of cool moves. He was intimidating as a heel, and extremely popular when he turned face. He even had his own fans group. He was the type of guy who seemed ideal for doing well in the WWF, but then he disappeared in 1995, and his career frizzled away as Wrath before finding moderate success again in the tag ranks. Definitely should've had a better career than he did.

 

Raven. A lot of reasons why things never worked out, but the bottom line is he was really good, was one of the best talkers around, and should have been floating around IC title level in the WWF for a long time. Instead, he was pushed for a couple of weeks, became a WWF nobody, then disappeared into Indie and TNA obscurity.

 

Power & Glory. They were really pretty good together and a perfect way to utilise two guys who maybe weren't going to be singles stars themselves in the 90s. But all they got was a hot couple of months before they burned out and after a whole half year they were the recipients of the Wrestlemania squash before fading away over the next few months. They probably hated the Nasty Boys too.

 

A bit surprised the two stocks answers for this kind of thing haven't been mentioned - Barry Windham and Vader (in the WWF)

 

Overachievers

 

Bob Holly. Always been bit crap, but still managed to cling to his job as a racecar driver for 4 years, then his one good year in 1999 seemed to earn him another 5 or 6 years in a decent spot even when he was quite boring. He was even given a world title shot on one of the big 4 at one stage. Must've been on our TV's for close to 15 years.

 

Justin Credible. Absolute shite, yet somehow managed to be booked as the main man in the 3rd biggest promotion in the country, and even got the WWF to sign him up again to much headlines at the time. There's hope for anyone if he was able to do so well for himself.

 

Cody Rhodes. I don't get him at all. Bad look, dull promo guy, not particularly outstanding as a wrestler - nothing about him stands out to me, yet so many people obviously see this star-potential that I don't. I'm amazed he does so well and is considered one of the top midcard guys as he's usually channel changing material for me. Fair play to him I guess.

 

Buff Bagwell - Always pretty prominent in WCW - Flair even included him in amongst the legends in his final Nitro promo (must've been a wind-up??). He had one good year where he was genuinely entertaining to watch, 1997, yet he had been stinking up WCW for 6 years prior to that, and a couple after his injury. Made himself a big name in the wrestling world without ever being good outside of the nWo

 

Konnan - like Bagwell, minus the 'one good year' thing. Actually got people to react to his shit catchphrases.

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Forgot 2 Cold Scorpio in underachievers too. There ain't a lot of real great showpiece matches from the WWF or WCW yet he was arguably the best highflying wrestler in the US during his peak in the 90s. Spent far too long wasting away out of the limelight in ECW and Japan when he should have been in one of the big 2, and doing a lot better than Flash Funk did.

 

Did he leave WCW on bad terms or something, or was he just too much of a hopeless junkie at that time, as you would have thought they'd be keen to sign him up when he finished with the WWF in '98.

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I think so many people could be classified as both to be honest. Reading through this topic you see a name like Jeff Hardy and you think on one hand he overachieved when you think how scrawny he is, and you think of 1998 OMEGA~ Jeff Hardy. Then on the other hand you think he under achieved when he left the WWE on his latest run as one of the top two baby faces in the company to redebut and trip over shit in an over produced episode of Impact.

 

And its not just Jeff. Names like Jake Roberts - who was an average wrestler at best with an average physique who yet had good psychology. You could argue he overachieved. Then on the other hand you could argue he underachieved when he screwed his life up considering how much talent he had in regards to getting over, being a big name and being an amazing interview etc.

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