Wendell Cooley Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I watched a funny video on Youtube a while ago - a compilation of Roddy Piper poking people in the eye. He looked so dastardly doing so. It was ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigBoot Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 WWE changed the 'correct' way German suplexes were to be done directly because of all the neck surgeries back in the early 2000s. There was talk on here of them 'phasing them out' around 2003-2004 and then again when the same issue came up in 2006 but personally I never saw much evidence of them doing that and they even gave a new guy (Lashley) the triple-German spot after all of that. Â Swagger, Bryan, Ziggler and Del Rio still do them now and Shelton Benjamin was still busting them out until he was released less than two years ago. They might well be limited to certain guys within WWE who they trust but no way are they banned in the way piledrivers, blading or 'proper' bulldogs are. Â Realistically, I think its just that a lot of the guys who did them aren't around anymore (Benoit, Angle, Lesnar, Tajiri, Lashley) rather than anything else. If Angle... or Lesnar... or Lashley re-signs tomorrow he'd still be out there doing German suplex spot with Del Rio. Â The heart punch. So simple and effective if the commentator knows how to sell it. I loved it when big buggers like Spivey and Mean Mark used it to Murderise jobbers. "Made famous by the late great Wilbur Snyder", don't see enough of the abdominal stretch these days. Always great for outside interference with the leverage from the rope, or in singles, "He's using the rope,but the ref doesn't see it. Also miss how Scott Hall used to ruffle their hair, slap them in the face and dump them after he got tired of the stretch. Monsoon was great but i never heard him put the stretch over on commentary for him it was never applied correctly. He hasn't got that hold applied properly, he hasn't got the leverage" legend. Â The abdominal stretch is sometimes used by Cena, Orton and *I think* Punk (may be wrong on the last one). Mostly on PPV where the matches are longer. Â It's weird because 'back in the day' it used to be predominantly a heel move, which makes sense because of the Scott Hall stuff you mention, but it seems to be used by the faces now. Same with chinlocks which all of the above also use, but used to be a way for the heel to "wear down" the babyface by slowing them down a bit since the heel would usually control the bulk of the match. Â I'm guessing the change in formula is due to the current crop of heels being on defense a lot of the time (other than Henry, Miz, Swagger and sometimes Regal). Guys as varied as Christian, Truth, Del Rio, McIntyre, Slater, Hunico, Barrett and Bryan all seem to spend a lot more time on defense than heels of the past which means the babyfaces need more wear-down holds for the extended control spots such as headlocks, chinlocks, abdominal stretches, Fujiwara armbars (another one Cena and Punk both do), etc. where the heel is selling. Â Not a move, but something I'd like to see again is trash talking during matches. I have a fond memory of Michael Hayes in a rare squash match for WCW informing a jobber, "First I'm gonna clothesline ya, then I'm gonna DDT ya, then I'm gonna pin ya!" he then did just that and it was brilliant. Â Yeah, Hayes was always great at that. There used to be a lot of guys who'd do that talk trash during the match routine back in the 60s-90s: Jim Breaks, Eddie Guerrero, Ron Simmons, Mick McManus, Demolition, JBL, Jimmy Garvin, Steve Austin, Brian Pillman and Ric Flair being others. Sometimes the one-liners were better than the actual matches. Â From guys around now Drew McIntyre does it a lot, plus Finlay and Chris Jericho (although whether he will with his new gimmick remains to be seen). I presume Bully Ray does as well but don't really watch TNA. If not he needs to go back to it since it was a big part of his matches when he was in the Dudleys (both as heel and face) in ECW and WWF/E. I know he's only been around for a few weeks but Brodus Clay is doing it as part of his gimmick as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamTheGreat Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 No idea, they might have stopped it. Didn't he nearly kill Ricky Steamboat with one? There's not enough eye raking these days I was thinking about this earlier. Hogan was mad on eye rakes. There's a bit in the '92 Rumble where him and Piper are brawling, and it's just a series of eye rakes. I can't imagine Cena and Orton ever doing that.  He did a lot of back rakes as Hollywood Hogan didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 29, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 They might well be limited to certain guys within WWE who they trust but no way are they banned in the way piledrivers, blading or 'proper' bulldogs are. Bulldogs are banned? Doesn't CM Punk use one, or is it slightly different to the ones you'd see Piper and Bret use? Â The abdominal stretch is sometimes used by Cena Yeah, I'm sure he used it at MITB- and applied it wrong (stepped over with the wrong leg, as though you would for an Octopus Stretch instead). I saw one in WWE a couple of weeks ago too, but I forget who. Â He did a lot of back rakes as Hollywood Hogan didn't he? Hogan fucking loved a back rake. Best Hogan back rake moment was at Mania 18, every time he'd rake The Rock's back, the crowd would go ballistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendell Cooley Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm pretty sure Hogan did back rakes at the height of his babyfacedom. He had a few heelish moves in his arsenal that Jesse Ventura would gleefully remark upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted January 29, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 WWE changed the 'correct' way German suplexes were to be done directly because of all the neck surgeries back in the early 2000s. There was talk on here of them 'phasing them out' around 2003-2004 and then again when the same issue came up in 2006 but personally I never saw much evidence of them doing that and they even gave a new guy (Lashley) the triple-German spot after all of that. Â Swagger, Bryan, Ziggler and Del Rio still do them now and Shelton Benjamin was still busting them out until he was released less than two years ago. They might well be limited to certain guys within WWE who they trust but no way are they banned in the way piledrivers, blading or 'proper' bulldogs are. Â Realistically, I think its just that a lot of the guys who did them aren't around anymore (Benoit, Angle, Lesnar, Tajiri, Lashley) rather than anything else. If Angle... or Lesnar... or Lashley re-signs tomorrow he'd still be out there doing German suplex spot with Del Rio. I think you're right in saying that they aren't banned and that one of the reasons we don't see many of them is because the guys famous for using them simply aren't in WWE at the moment, but I think it's also pretty clear that WWE aren't keen for guys to be using it either. I'm sure if someone like Daniel Bryan wants to use it in a match he can do so without fear of a telling off, but you won't see guys coming out of FCW knocking them out on their NXT debuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm pretty sure Hogan did back rakes at the height of his babyfacedom. Aye, he did. He must have had long nails as well, because he was doing them on the Iraqi boys who all had tops on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigBoot Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 They might well be limited to certain guys within WWE who they trust but no way are they banned in the way piledrivers, blading or 'proper' bulldogs are. Bulldogs are banned? Doesn't CM Punk use one, or is it slightly different to the ones you'd see Piper and Bret use? Â The abdominal stretch is sometimes used by Cena Yeah, I'm sure he used it at MITB- and applied it wrong (stepped over with the wrong leg, as though you would for an Octopus Stretch instead). I saw one in WWE a couple of weeks ago too, but I forget who. Â He did a lot of back rakes as Hollywood Hogan didn't he? Hogan fucking loved a back rake. Best Hogan back rake moment was at Mania 18, every time he'd rake The Rock's back, the crowd would go ballistic. Â Good point. I'd completely forgotten about Punk. Sure Matt Hardy used to do it that way as well. They were apparently 'banned' (or at least as banned as piledrivers, etc.) for a while though - I remember there being a big deal about that, regular piledrivers and the Tombstone being 'banned' back in the year 2000. Although thinking about it even then Matt Hardy may have been using it? I remember there being a big deal online when Goldust did it the proper way a few times on Heat back in 2003 instead of hitting that Scotty 2 Hotty/Jericho version like he had been doing. I'm guessing they were unbanned/aren't banned anymore. Â I'd imagine they are similar to German suplexes then and people its just don't do them as much. Â I like the guy but Cena's application isn't great. For a guy who has a lot of moves, gets to do some pretty high-risk spots (Fameasser off the top rope, powerbombs and Attitude Adjustments through tables, etc.) and isn't afraid to lay it in there/often looks pretty stiff by WWE standards (clothesline out of the corner, hard weapon shots, etc.) his execution of a lot of the basics still isn't that good even for his own speciality submission. He's normally great at selling other people's moves and making them look like they hurt which is why it's frustrating when he applies them badly. Â Hogan used to cheat a lot. Loved it when Ventura or Heenan would criticise him for it. Â WWE changed the 'correct' way German suplexes were to be done directly because of all the neck surgeries back in the early 2000s. There was talk on here of them 'phasing them out' around 2003-2004 and then again when the same issue came up in 2006 but personally I never saw much evidence of them doing that and they even gave a new guy (Lashley) the triple-German spot after all of that. Â Swagger, Bryan, Ziggler and Del Rio still do them now and Shelton Benjamin was still busting them out until he was released less than two years ago. They might well be limited to certain guys within WWE who they trust but no way are they banned in the way piledrivers, blading or 'proper' bulldogs are. Â Realistically, I think its just that a lot of the guys who did them aren't around anymore (Benoit, Angle, Lesnar, Tajiri, Lashley) rather than anything else. If Angle... or Lesnar... or Lashley re-signs tomorrow he'd still be out there doing German suplex spot with Del Rio. I think you're right in saying that they aren't banned and that one of the reasons we don't see many of them is because the guys famous for using them simply aren't in WWE at the moment, but I think it's also pretty clear that WWE aren't keen for guys to be using it either. I'm sure if someone like Daniel Bryan wants to use it in a match he can do so without fear of a telling off, but you won't see guys coming out of FCW knocking them out on their NXT debuts. Â Fair enough, I'm sure that's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted January 29, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 Hogan always fought dirty, heel or face. Back rakes and even biting were staples of his matches. A lot of guys think you shouldn't use heel tactics if you're a babyface, but that's not always the case. Fans would go nuts for Hogan giving the heels a dose of their own medicine. Hogan was just the master of it. He didn't need to pull out anything remotely dangerous to get a reaction. Â It's all about the strength of a wrestler's connection with the audience though. Fans would root for Hogan so much that they would happily cheer him on, even if he used dirty tactics. Strong characters like Eddie Guerrero and Stone Cold were the same. If a babyface doesn't have such a strong connection with the audience, it can backfire though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviearlo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Atomic Drop for me - they are extinct these days  10 count punches in the corner of the ring - it felt like they were mandatory for a match in the old days of WWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 29, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 Re Cena applying holds: I remember watching the old UPW wrestling training DVD which had Kazarian, Daniels, Samoa Joe and Cena on it. Trainer Tom Howard asked Cena to apply a top wristlock and he instead put on a hammerlock (or something like that), Tom quickly told Cena he'd got the wrong technique and told him to do the right one. And they kept that on the sodding DVD! They could've re-shot the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendell Cooley Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm a bit out of the loop - does anyone still do that thing where they get a guy in the corner, straddle the middle rope and punch him ten times in the head while the crowd count along? Â Oops, just noticed steviearlo's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted January 29, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm a bit out of the loop - does anyone still do that thing where they get a guy in the corner, straddle the middle rope and punch him ten times in the head while the crowd count down? Mentioned just a couple of posts before yours - 10 count punches. Rarely seen these days. Fun move for the live crowd- not enough guys attempt to engage the audience enough anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Up Chuck Posted January 29, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 Swear I saw someone do that the other day. And Sheamus has his thing where he ties the guy up in the ropes facing the crowd, then clubs their chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 29, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 29, 2012 I loved it when Andre used to get tied up in the ropes, the crowd would go apeshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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