David Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Having just finished reading the book "Chavs - The Demonization Of The Working Class" by Guardian writer Owen Jones, I thought I'd post the question on this forum. Is this term offensive? Or is it rightly attributed to a section of the so-called working class?  Is it a humorous dig at those who are fond of cheap sportswear and fake jewellery? Or is there something more, as the author of the book suggests?  For anyone interested in the book, here's a review, which also addresses the topic question a little as well;  Owen Jones's indignant, well-argued debut begins with a joke: "It's sad that Woolworth's is closing. Where will all the chavs buy their Christmas presents?" This was uttered by the host of a dinner party attended by the author in "a gentrified part of east London", at which liberal views are taken as a given and, though everyone present has a professional job, not everyone is white, male or straight. Jones, who is in his late 20s and has worked both as a trade-union lobbyist and as a parliamentary researcher for a Labour MP, doesn't say how he reacted to this mindless put-down at the time. Did he refuse to eat the blackcurrant cheesecake that was being "carefully sliced" as his host sought to fill an awkward silence? Did he storm out and call time on their friendship? Whatever he did on the night, its casual malice led him, indirectly, to write this book, which argues that class hatred is the last acceptable prejudice.  Chavs is persuasively argued, and packed full of good reporting and useful information. Jones singles out for opprobrium middle-class contempt towards working-class people, those regarded by rightwing commentators such as Simon Heffer as the "feral underclass". In this caricature, peddled by spittle-flecked websites such as chavscum.co.uk and tacitly endorsed by the mass media, "chav" means "underclass", which means working-class people who don't keep their noses clean or behave impeccably. The word's etymology is contested: some accounts associate its origin with chavi, a Romany word for "child" or "youth", which developed into "charva" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 David, you may be interested to know that Mrs Houchen attended a lecture by Owen Jones a few months ago. She thought it was excellent. And yes, I find the term offensive, not being labelled one but the whole thing is the latest in a long line of convenient tags used by both the media and the people it demonises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 David, you may be interested to know that Mrs Houchen attended a lecture by Owen Jones a few months ago. She thought it was excellent. And yes, I find the term offensive, not being labelled one but the whole thing is the latest in a long line of convenient tags used by both the media and the people it demonises. Cool, I'm assuming it wasn't a book tour or anything? Didn't hear about it up here in Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 David, you may be interested to know that Mrs Houchen attended a lecture by Owen Jones a few months ago. She thought it was excellent. And yes, I find the term offensive, not being labelled one but the whole thing is the latest in a long line of convenient tags used by both the media and the people it demonises. Cool, I'm assuming it wasn't a book tour or anything? Didn't hear about it up here in Glasgow. No, it was a one off thing for a think tank based in the North, Newcastle to be exact. His book had been out for about a year at the time. It was in a Cafe thus was only attended by about 30 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Halitosis Romantic Posted January 24, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Caf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 Caf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators PowerButchi Posted January 24, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 24, 2012 To be honest I find the people who go on about and demonise 'Chav culture' and the people who appear in Jeremy Kyle and the like far more abhorrent than the people they take a pop at truth be told. Elitist fucking arseholes. Â I suppose a lot of it comes to tribalism and needing to be part of a social peer group in order for security in themselves as well. 'Goths' hate 'Chavs' who hate 'Emos' who hate '*OTHER SOCIAL PEER GROUP*' and I find the whole thing quite sad, if I'm totally honest. It's like a shit version of moaning gang warfare, where instead of knifes we have verbal barbs running down a social peer group as if all within are one entity. It's a load of bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Halitosis Romantic Posted January 24, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Chavs have knives, Butch. And they WILL cut you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Up Chuck Posted January 24, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 To be honest I find the people who go on about and demonise 'Chav culture' and the people who appear in Jeremy Kyle and the like far more abhorrent than the people they take a pop at truth be told. Elitist fucking arseholes. Â I suppose a lot of it comes to tribalism and needing to be part of a social peer group in order for security in themselves as well. 'Goths' hate 'Chavs' who hate 'Emos' who hate '*OTHER SOCIAL PEER GROUP*' and I find the whole thing quite sad, if I'm totally honest. It's like a shit version of moaning gang warfare, where instead of knifes we have verbal barbs running down a social peer group as if all within are one entity. It's a load of bollocks. Â I think this is probably my favourite post you've ever made. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiffy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't really agree with the premise that chav is a working class phenomenon, and I think to suggest it is is, in and of itself, kinda prejudiced against the working class. Plenty of middle class kids go out in tracksuits, stand on street corners getting pissed and squeeze at babies at the age of 14 and 3 quarters. And plenty of working class kids behave and dress in a manner that could in no way be described as chav. So yeah, taking the piss out of someone for being a chav just means taking the piss out of someone for being a chav, it's not about mocking the working class. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Your Fight Site Posted January 24, 2012 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2012 Only if you're a chav, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiffy Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Only if you're a chav, I guess. Â Is that how it works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Quagmire Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 IMO a lot of it is down to a slight shift in the roots of the class system in England, with the chav label being given mainly but not always as an insult. A sneering tone often made by Hyacinthe Bucket-like social climbers and their next generation offspring I tend to find. It wouldn't be so bad if it referred to a sub culture where a group has similar interests in music, fashion etc. like hipsters but plenty of people are wrongly given the chav label when their only crime is that they don't see the point in "aspiring" to be middle-class at all costs. Some middle-class children do fall into the perceived chav image but they are often the exception, looking perhaps for some sort of excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Caf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I really don't know how to respond to the word 'chav', because I'm not really sure what it means up these parts. I say this because I was aware of the term 'charva' from around 1997 (and I'm sure there are others who will have heard it before that), and it was used to refer to a very specific group of people. Generally, they'd be:  -aged between 13-25 -fond of tracksuits, BMXs, tucking their pants into their white sport socks, and displaying their scrawny, 8st torsos at the first light of spring -usually seen hanging round shops and back lanes, kicking a ball around, spitting, and swigging from a can of Fosters -jobless, with no prospect or desire of changing that situation -unable to work a condom  It does my fucking head in when middle-class academics and journalists wade in white knighting and claiming the labelling of this group as 'demonisation of the working classes', primarily because most of them are no such thing. It's an insult to genuine working class people to group them together with feckless third-generation scroungers who do contribute nothing to society other than useless offspring, loud happy hardcore music and phlegm.  However, around the middle of the last decade, Radio 1 DJs and the like started to use the term 'chav' in relation to annoying but ultimately harmless celebrities who just happened to be a bit tacky and tasteless. That's where I start to be confused, because the more middle-class usage of the term seems to come from people who have very little experience of the subculture I recognise as 'charvas', and to be aimed at people who again bare very little resemblance to that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.