Midcarders of Yesteryear

[PunkStep]

Also, how are people defining "midcarder" and "main eventer"? Ted DiBiase main-evented pay-per-views, so did Owen Hart and Rick Rude. Is it just a rewording of "would they win the world title if they were around nowadays?" thing?

I kinda ignored the main point of the thread to be honest and started talking about who would be world champion nowadays but wasn't back then. Dibiase was certainly a main eventer throughout 1988.

[PSF]

The only major difference is that Bryan can cut one hell of a promo when given the chance, where as Owen always struggled a bit with the interview side of things. He wasn't 'bad' as such, but just not very natural.

 

Owens promo after beating Bret at WMXX is my favourite of all time! So beleivable, the geeza was foaming at the mouth like a good un! Far better than anything Brian has ever produced.

[PowerButchi]

Owen was great and all, but that man was midcard 4 life, even if that life had been longer.

 

Totally, and I think that the influx of talented midcarders starting with Y2J in the summer of '99 would have done for Owen as an upper card talent.

[Guest]

The only major difference is that Bryan can cut one hell of a promo when given the chance, where as Owen always struggled a bit with the interview side of things. He wasn't 'bad' as such, but just not very natural.

 

Owens promo after beating Bret at WMXX is my favourite of all time! So beleivable, the geeza was foaming at the mouth like a good un! Far better than anything Brian has ever produced.

Must have been a dark match

[Kaz Hayashi]

I think these few merged between mid card to upper mid, but never quite made the big time as such. They could in my eyes however, rock the headline today. Some of these may not have been the total package, but in terms of decent enough in the ring, overness with the ability to sell merch, these are my choices.

 

Perfect (obvious)

$ man (obvious)

Bam Bam (Never quite made the big time, but possibly, one of the best fat lads ever).

Gold dust (he was stupidly over when he first arrived as a heel, everyone hated him and it was quality. The comedy, although good, killed off that main event potential).

British Bulldog (just after his I.C reign, i think he could possibly have been a great world champ, it didnt go so well when he came back in the late 90's, but he was fun to watch.)

Ricky Steamboat (again, obvious)

 

i could probs go on a few more if im honest.

[simonworden]

Because it's a stupid bullshit cop out to suggest that there are no characters in wrestling, and it's the boring 'cookie-cutter' line we keep hearing, usually from people who have no follow up argument other than to parrot the soundbites they've read in lieu of being able to rationalise and form a considered opinion of their own.

 

I don't think that's quite what I said, but thank you for providing a more detailed response, although I don't think there was a need to insult me when I was only stating my opinion which I will try and briefly put more of an explanation into than I did before hand. It will probably look like I am back tracking as well and quite frankly I am.

 

My point was in my head and should have been translated better that If the aforementioned, and again I should have said some of the aforementioned more than others were to debut in the WWE now as fresh new talent they would likely be just another bod due to the changes in character development techniques from the 80's 90's and today more perhaps 1/2 years ago rather than right now where a gradual trend with character development for mid carders seems to be occurring. But WWE has over the last decade spent less and less time on the midcard which is part of the problem that most people have addressed across the boards/ magazines/ blogs etc for a number of years. Back in 1980s/ 1990s etc many mid carders were given time to develop there gimmick and character before and during there debut months. One other big difference today is the champion and main eventers wrestle each other frequently where as back in the 80s and very early 90s you could go a couple of weeks without seeing the champ wrestle and of course this meant there was more room on TV for the Midcarders to get over. Giving them time was key as well.

 

If we look at Mr Perfect/ Razor Ramon etc they were given a number of videos explaining who they were followed by interview time to get over personalities. Jobber matches also helped to get over finishing moves which I think helped to make wrestlers more important. My basic point being that over the last decade these elements have become more rare and have actually made it harder for talent to get over then rise to the top. Some more examples are below.

 

Would the WWE have spent ages trying to explain Jake the Snake Roberts in vignettes and interviews today, probably not to the extent they did in the 80's. Thread Loose comparison but the first one to pop into my head was kizarny. While he got the videos he didn't get masses of TV time to explain his character or how he felt about his early opponents in the same way Roberts did. Also the Snake thing would be seen today as hokey and no way get over how it did in the 80s

 

Ahmed Johnson also springs to mind, would he really have been in a higher position on the card if he had been around today. The bloke was pretty terrible in his hey day in 1995 where the roster was limited to say the least. Todays giants such as Ezekial Jackson and Mason Ryan are just as bad and quite frankly Johnson couldn't hope to be in a better position on the card than they are now.

 

 

Of course there are factors I haven't considered and could write about in more depth to argue both sides including the territories/ other large companies providing more places to work and get over or that my examples are flawed because things would have been different for character development today anyway and therefore who is to tell what these workers would be like, but that's just getting to far into it for the moment.

 

I hope this explains a little more into my thinking and apologise to anyone who was offended or angry over my previous short post that sounded mong like and going with the norm based. Perhaps when I have mroe time I will write about who I think could possibly be main event calibre in todays environment.

[PowerButchi]

I think Bulldog from 95-97 definitely would have had a title reign these days looking at how he was pushed a few times during that period. Main evented a few PPVs in title shots and was quite protected in that timespan.

[tom]

I think Bulldog from 95-97 definitely would have had a title reign these days looking at how he was pushed a few times during that period. Main evented a few PPVs in title shots and was quite protected in that timespan.

I've just suddenly got very excited about the prospect of Bulldog v Cena in this wonderful alternate reality

[King Pitcos]

But WWE has over the last decade spent less and less time on the midcard which is part of the problem that most people have addressed across the boards/ magazines/ blogs etc for a number of years. Back in 1980s/ 1990s etc many mid carders were given time to develop there gimmick and character before and during there debut months. One other big difference today is the champion and main eventers wrestle each other frequently where as back in the 80s and very early 90s you could go a couple of weeks without seeing the champ wrestle and of course this meant there was more room on TV for the Midcarders to get over. Giving them time was key as well.

Some of your points are valid, but this "they don't get enough time" thing is bollocks. Since mid-2009, Dolph Ziggler has had about twenty minutes of screentime every week on TV. That's far more than the likes of Mr Perfect ever had. Midcard talent today gets more screentime than midcard talent of any other era.

[simonworden]

Perhaps I'm looking at it in a different way, part of the problem is the same as "attitude era rose tinted glasses". It was a long time ago, I was much much younger and don't remember it fully. What I get to re-watch today are of course only the highlights. I may even go back and have alook at the difference in televised match lengths today and yesteryear out of curiosity.

[FLips]

Ken Shamrock would be either a massive success or a massive failure in this "era". It depends entirely whether or not the MMA fans would take to an MMA Legend doing wrestling, or whether they'd shit on it. Ken Shamrock was over as, and one of the gems of the Attitude Era.

[PSF]

Just one to throw out there...

 

If Hecules had been around the same time as Batista, do you think he would have gotton the nod over Big Dave? WWE had alot of faith in him as a midcard act back in the 80's, i believe he has the record for most constant PPV appearances (may have been overtaken by Y2J).

 

Same could be said for alot of other talent that never got that big push, could Rick Martel or Tito Santana be in Del Rio' current position if he was around today? Both were equally as good in the ring as Del Rio and Martel had far more personality.

[PowerButchi]

But WWE has over the last decade spent less and less time on the midcard which is part of the problem that most people have addressed across the boards/ magazines/ blogs etc for a number of years. Back in 1980s/ 1990s etc many mid carders were given time to develop there gimmick and character before and during there debut months. One other big difference today is the champion and main eventers wrestle each other frequently where as back in the 80s and very early 90s you could go a couple of weeks without seeing the champ wrestle and of course this meant there was more room on TV for the Midcarders to get over. Giving them time was key as well.

Some of your points are valid, but this "they don't get enough time" thing is bollocks. Since mid-2009, Dolph Ziggler has had about twenty minutes of screentime every week on TV. That's far more than the likes of Mr Perfect ever had. Midcard talent today gets more screentime than midcard talent of any other era.

 

Indeed. Hulk Hogan would only wrestle on TV about 4 times a year, and the format of having 5 squash matches in an hour twice a weekend doesn't really give a roster of 40 people or whatever a whole lot of screen time.

[cobra_gordo]

I'd like to think that Dean Malenko would have ended up a main eventer and title holder, like his Radicalz bretheren Guerrero and Benoit. Especially with somebody like Daniel Bryan and his technical style that they're putting over, the man of a thousand holds would have fitted in quite nicely. I fucking loves me a bit of Malenko.

[King Pitcos]

Longevity of older wrestlers compared to today might be a difference-maker as well. Does the faster pace today negate the easier schedule and softer ring, in terms of wear and tear?