(Debate) Top 3 UK Wrestlers of All Time

[ravishing1]

No, It doesnt matter that they were related and I appreciate that everyone needs a push to get over, I just think that Big daddy was so limited in his moves that I could not imagine him doing well in any other promotion.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

This should be fun.Rules: You have to post who your top 3 UK Wrestlers are and give reasons for it. Then you have to look at what other people post and say why your picks are better than theres. Whoever puts the best argument forward (decided by me) will win a free copy of Wrestling Manager. (Even if the game's not your kind of thing, still join in - it will be fun)

Ok not bothered about the gamebut1. Dynamite Kid - His matches in Japan were legendary. He paved the way for smaller wrestlers, and also for brit's working overseas. Also inspired many performers, none more so than Benoit.2. Nigel Mcguinness - Maybe i'm a bit lost in the fact he retired this weekend but i don't think there has ever been a wrestler from these shores who had as many good matches as Nigel. He had charisma and skills, was the complete package. Wrestled in Japan, ROH, the UK and many other countries. I believe he paved the way for the talent rich pool such as Sabre Jr, Scurll, Devitt, and the rest we have now.3. British Bulldog - He made British Wrestling Mainstream. For that reason alone he is in my top 3. But he also had stellar matches with the Harts, Shawn Michaels, Warlord, and many others.

I think this is a bloody good start, but do you feel that Nigel McGuinness should truly be classed as a 'British' wrestler?I ask because (and this isn't necessarily my opinion, I'm throwing it out there for the purposes of discussion) I remember one reputable indy wrestler who had a issue with this claim. And he did have a point. McGuinness left the UK permanently at the age of 12, was mostly trained in the US and had the majority of his career (and life) outside of the UK. In fact most (if not all) of his UK matches came after he became a star on the indy scene. Therefore for the purposes of this debate, although he is UK born (and a steller performer), has he truly made a big enough contribution to the UK scene to be listed as one of the top three UK wrestlers of all time? Just throwing it out there (but I know some smart arse is going to call me a moron for doing so).

I've replied to this 3 times and all three times my machine has crashed. I think you raise an interesting point so I have a counter question. Would you consider Benoit or Jericho Canadian Wrestlers? And would you consider the British Bulldog... British? I ask because Bulldog spent less than 20% of his career in the UK, Benoit and Jericho both learned a huge amount of their trade in Japan and spent the lion share of their career outside of Canada.

- I would consider Jericho & Benoit Canadian wrestlers, but then I'm not massively familiar with their entire careers work. I presume though they did start their career / training in Canada though.- I would consider the likes of Regal / Barrett / The British Bulldog "British wrestlers" because they spent the early part of their careers and trained in the UK. For all intents and purposes they "broke out" of the UK and made a success of themselves overseas. The key differences between these men and Nigel McGuinness is that McGuinness (as far as I am aware) NEVER had any training or influence in Britain, nor did he ever compete in Britain before becoming "indy-famous". Hell I would consider Sheamus more of a British wrestler than McGuinness (now if that statement dosen't earn me the wrath of the Irish fans I don't know what will )- However this is all subjective and anyone who say he is a British wrestler would be perfectly fine and fair to say that. I suppose "technically" he is a British wrestler since he was born here. Maybe it would be fairer to say that some would not consider him a "true" British Wrestler due to the fact that his training and career started years after he left the UK?Like I said when I brought up this point, it wasn't necessarily a opinion I had, but now that I think about it, my opinion is this:"Nigel McGuinness is an awesome wrestler but his claim to being a 'British wrestler' is muddy. Although technically British, his entire career and training took part outside of the UK (and is pretty much treated like any US import now), and that therefore he is not as much a "British wrestler" than the likes of Doug Williams, Burchill, Wade Barrett, Davey Boy Smith and William Regal. Of course that doesn't change the fact that his career and presence has no doubt inspired many British wrestlers currently training and competing within the UK."As for my top three, I don't think I'm educated enough to make that decision, so will respectfully decline to do so.

[Serious Parody]

Loving the enthusiasm in here. There's some great names being thrown around (some I wasn't familiar with until this post - so thanks). Also I just want to say that in all my years visiting wrestling/game forums, I don't think I've ever seen a thread go 3 pages without someone bitching at someone else or trolling someone. Is this normal around here or did I just get lucky this time? Either way, great to see and now I've got some research to be doing to try and find video's on some of the names mentioned in here.Keep it going and if anyones interested in the prize, let me know so that I don't give it to someone who didn't want it.-Dan

[britishwrestlinglegends]

No, It doesnt matter that they were related and I appreciate that everyone needs a push to get over, I just think that Big daddy was so limited in his moves that I could not imagine him doing well in any other promotion.

He worked for years on top for Joint Promotions. So he did well in all of their different terrirtories? He had a great image for that era, a good wholesome clean living, down to earth character that people could easily relate to. Plus he got to squash every heel that had been built up for him. Yes his work was rubbish & predictable, but he was pure box office. Which is the bottom line in "Professional" Wrestling.

[Thunderplex]

No, It doesnt matter that they were related and I appreciate that everyone needs a push to get over, I just think that Big daddy was so limited in his moves that I could not imagine him doing well in any other promotion.

He worked for years on top for Joint Promotions. So he did well in all of their different terrirtories? He had a great image for that era, a good wholesome clean living, down to earth character that people could easily relate to. Plus he got to squash every heel that had been built up for him. Yes his work was rubbish & predictable, but he was pure box office. Which is the bottom line in "Professional" Wrestling.

 

I was very surprised to see a match a couple of months ago where he was a heel, and he introduced his friend and new tag team partner, Giant Haystacks! Had no idea he had spent time on the dark side.

[WhizzKid]

I ask because (and this isn't necessarily my opinion, I'm throwing it out there for the purposes of discussion) I remember one reputable indy wrestler who had a issue with this claim. And he did have a point. McGuinness left the UK permanently at the age of 12, was mostly trained in the US and had the majority of his career (and life) outside of the UK. In fact most (if not all) of his UK matches came after he became a star on the indy scene.

 

Although it still doesn't clarify whether he should be classed as a 'British Wrestler' as such, McGuiness worked for two years plus almost exclusively for All Star, on these shores, in the earlier part of his career before he became a star of the US indies. Granted this was after his training from Les Thatcher but I would class working on a nightly basis with the British veterans and imports here as an extension of his his initial training and progression as a wrestler. I would guess that McGuinness had a longer run as a fulltime wrestler on UK circuit than (certainly) Burchill and (probably) Barrett did.

[andrew "the ref" coyne]

I ask because (and this isn't necessarily my opinion, I'm throwing it out there for the purposes of discussion) I remember one reputable indy wrestler who had a issue with this claim. And he did have a point. McGuinness left the UK permanently at the age of 12, was mostly trained in the US and had the majority of his career (and life) outside of the UK. In fact most (if not all) of his UK matches came after he became a star on the indy scene.

 

Although it still doesn't clarify whether he should be classed as a 'British Wrestler' as such, McGuiness worked for two years plus almost exclusively for All Star, on these shores, in the earlier part of his career before he became a star of the US indies. Granted this was after his training from Les Thatcher but I would class working on a nightly basis with the British veterans and imports here as an extension of his his initial training and progression as a wrestler. I would guess that McGuinness had a longer run as a fulltime wrestler on UK circuit than (certainly) Burchill and (probably) Barrett did.

 

I was not aware of that, thanks. 2 years? Barrett certainly, Burchill probably not (but my memory is hazy on this).

[britishwrestlinglegends]

A great topic for debate.

 

It is hard to choose only three, but in no particular order:

 

Johnny Saint. He was (and still is) what many consider the prototype of the British technical style of wrestling. It is obvious that he has influenced a lot of wrestlers around the world.

Mark "Rollerball" Rocco/Black Tiger. Great allrounder, great intensity. Was part of the "junior heavyweight" revolution that took place in the early 1980s. His matches vs. Tiger Mask was at least as good as Dynamite Kid's.

Doug Williams. He came around at a time when the British wrestling scene was at an all-time low but has still been able to "make it" as a professional wrestler as part of the TNA roster and as a previous regular in Pro-Wrestling NOAH.

Now Johnny Saint was good, very good.......But every match he had was the same! There were A LOT of very good technical wrestlers around at the same time as Saint, During the WOS era. If you want to see one worker that i believe was a lot better than even Saint, Then check out some of Jon Cortez"s matches! A truely awesome worker

[The Guvnor]

A great shout on Jon Cortez, Dougie.

 

Jeff Kaye and Ken Joyce are names that rarely get mentioned, but both were absolute masters of their craft. Ditto Mick McMichael, one of the best all-rounders I've ever seen - great technical wrestling, comedy, crowd work and lots more besides. Pete Collins is another underrated talent. He always gets overshadowed by Danny. Danny was effortlessly brilliant, but Pete has always been so underrated, both as a technical wrestler and a great villain. Zoltan Boscik is another underrated worker - innovative and could work well as blue-eye (his televised match with Jim Breaks is probably the best example out there of this) or villain. As Dougie says about Johnny Saint, though, he had a set routine and you pretty much knew that any match of his you saw would have certain spots in at some point.

 

Pete Roberts and Terry Rudge were never spectacular, but they were always so solid and convincing. Mick McManus also deserves huge credit for his solid and realistic work right up to the end of his career - he took the best bumps from the Beel throws too. Excellent villain. A Mal Sanders match is also pretty much a masterclass in how to be a villain.

 

In terms of consistency over a long period of time, you also have to look at Ken Joyce proteges Blondie Barratt and Johnny Kidd. Still two of the best workers in the country, more than 30 years after they started, in my opinion.

 

Sorry, I realise this is supposed to be about a top three, but classic British wrestling so rarely gets discussed on here that it's good to add a little more than just top three picks.

 

I don't think I could pick a top three, although I will say that Dynamite Kid was truly revolutionary at a time when wrestling was changing a lot, so I'd probably have to include him in it.

[John Amos]

Hard one this but I would have to go with

 

Steve Regal

Dyanmite Kid

Billy Robinson

[PSF]

No love for Marty Jones out there?

[Lion_of_the_Midlands]

There have been some great names discussed in here, and some not so great to be honest. The Guvnor and britishwrestlinglegends in particular mention some great wrestlers who are massively under rated. For me though greatness is about influence, at the box office, in the ring, and on wrestling as a whole worldwide, in that order.

 

Wrestlers like Jeff Kaye and Ken Joyce were never the main draw and would be virtually unknown outside of a selected band of wrestling fans who frequent here and other forums. In the ring, quality through and through, but that would not be enough for me though to get them in the top 3.

 

Whoever mentioned Wade Barrett, wash your mouth out with soap and water. He may one day be WWE Champion, whatever that is worth in this day and age. Average in the ring, over for about 10 minutes when The Nexus was hot and there is nothing "British" about his wrestling. He is just another cookie cutter wrestler on the great WWE production line, and I use the word great quite wrongly.

 

My top 2 has to be

 

Big Daddy. A consistent draw over the years. Yes he was rubbish in the ring during that time but if you look at his earlier time in the ring as "The Battling Guardsman" he knew a a wristlock from a padlock and that is for certain. Also still known by the man in the street today and the majority of the people in the UK wouldn't know Desmond Wolfe from Virginia Wolfe so that they remember someone who has been dead for 14 years means he must have been doing something right. Yes he was getting pushed by his brother the promoter, but the Crabtrees were more business than family and had he not caught they would have dropped him quicker than you can say Doug Williams.

 

Dynamite Kid. A draw in Canada and Japan, and a decent draw in the US. His influence in the ring can still be seen today worldwide. Lots has been said about him already and I would only be going over ground that has already been covered.

 

I can't pick a third. Lots of people would qualify but I can't pick a third for love nor money

[Truth]

A great topic for debate.

 

It is hard to choose only three, but in no particular order:

 

Johnny Saint. He was (and still is) what many consider the prototype of the British technical style of wrestling. It is obvious that he has influenced a lot of wrestlers around the world.

Mark "Rollerball" Rocco/Black Tiger. Great allrounder, great intensity. Was part of the "junior heavyweight" revolution that took place in the early 1980s. His matches vs. Tiger Mask was at least as good as Dynamite Kid's.

Doug Williams. He came around at a time when the British wrestling scene was at an all-time low but has still been able to "make it" as a professional wrestler as part of the TNA roster and as a previous regular in Pro-Wrestling NOAH.

Now Johnny Saint was good, very good.......But every match he had was the same! There were A LOT of very good technical wrestlers around at the same time as Saint, During the WOS era. If you want to see one worker that i believe was a lot better than even Saint, Then check out some of Jon Cortez"s matches! A truely awesome worker

I believe you but I wrote "It is obvious that he has influenced a lot of wrestlers around the world", and I doubt Jon Cortez had the same influence. Johnny Saint started wrestling in 1958(?), is around 70 years old and is still getting international bookings because he is THE ONE who is considered the technical master.

 

There were so many great technical wrestlers in the WOS era, such as Steve Grey, Mike "Flash" Jordan, Zoltan Boscik, John Naylor to name a few.

[britishwrestlinglegends]

No love for Marty Jones out there?

God Yes! I saw him work loads of times, Unbelievable worker. His matches with Finlay/Collins/ Mike Bennett (another lost name) are some of the very best matches i saw live. Even more amazing is Jones partially sighted in one eye & blind in the other!

 

I went to a training seminar a few years ago with Marty Jones. He had a tag match on his own, He had an invisible partner who he tagged in then replaced one of his invisible Men opponents with himself, Then he worked his former invisible partner? You obviously had to be there, But it was truely amazing to watch

[Thunderplex]

No love for Marty Jones out there?

 

He would be my 5 if this there was a top 5. Fantastic wrestler who was at most of the Stockport shows in the early 90's. Had an amazing match vs Danny Collins there.