Minor news items that don't deserve a thread

[King Pitcos]

3 hours ago, Supremo said:

I want Iron Man to get his revenge on Thanos because Thanos turned Spiderman into dust. Not because Josh Brolin keeps saying in press interviews that he could beat up Robert Downey Jr in a real fight. Superheroes aren't real, mark.

That analogy only works if all discussion of Marvel films was along the lines of "I wish they'd stop shoving Iron Man down our throats, they don't know how to write top Avengers anymore, Spider-Man's fat mate from school should have been the one to beat Thanos." The stories and characters of Marvel films are judged on their own merit, rather than through stupid filters of burials and workrates. Josh Brolin still signs most of his autographs as Josh Brolin rather than Thanos. If Robert Downey Jr is on a talk show, he's probably billed as Robert Downey Jr. Wrestlers have such an identity crisis that it's only recently they've stopped getting upset at people knowing their real names.

From a Real Wrestling Fan perspective, the theme of the Becky Lynch vs Ronda Rousey feud was always Real Wrestler Who Vince Hates vs Celebrity Who Vince Loves. The caring about winning or losing isn't caring about the character winning or losing, it's about whether we've forced Vince to Change Plans so we can chant "you deserve it" and the performer can do a speech on Raw saying "I was never meant to be here, none of this would've been possible without you guys." That's the basis on which those marks now get worked, it's nu-kayfabe. And it's stupid shit, but we've all got blood on our hands in making it this way. If we'd complained to Snickers about the "this is Phil Brooks talking to Paul Levesque" promo, things would be different now.

"I don't even care to see the match" is a lie. You watch every match, regardless of whether you enjoy it. Whether they cater the show to you or not, they're getting the exact same money from you. When we cast ourselves as armchair bookers and unpaid Meltzers, we have to watch the show to see how we'd have done it better and tell them what they've done wrong.

[UK Kat Von D]

Why are you talking like Ronda was the most hated woman or it was for any reason other than people had really got behind Becky because of her character work? People were desperate for Becky to be at the top, so anyone opposing her would have gotten some boos. Even if it had been another Indy darling (which Becky has never been anyway) they would have been booed because the momentum Becky built by being one of the best faces in the company.

Charlotte was the one who got booed because she always wins and was the chosen one, not Ronda. That was because she was given the match that the fans wanted Becky to have.

It is really weird that no matter what the conversation is you try to shoe horn it into the same repetitive argument. If Strowman got more cheers than Rollins you would find a way to make it seem like he had more internet points 

Edited April 13, 2020 by UK Kat Von D

[Supremo]

3 hours ago, King Pitcos said:

That analogy only works if all discussion of Marvel films was along the lines of "I wish they'd stop shoving Iron Man down our throats, they don't know how to write top Avengers anymore, Spider-Man's fat mate from school should have been the one to beat Thanos."

That’s not the case on here though. The UKFF is one of the best places online for chat about matches and storylines based on their merit. Yet, the way it forever devolves down the straw-man, “Vince ain’t my real dad,” route is absolutely tiresome and impossible to engage with because almost no-one on here has that perspective.

I wanted Becky Lynch to fight Ronda Rousey because she was a cool, cocky, swaggering, white-hot superstar who showed no fear against the unstoppable, unbeatable ex-UFC champion. Then on TV it became this muddled mess about injured legs and suspensions and loads of other shit, whilst online and in interviews it became about everything being fake and stupid, both of which were equally as bad and ruined the dynamite dynamic they’d previously set up. I still watched it, obviously, because I’m a weirdo who watches everything, but I went from feeling like a kid on Christmas morning to having it on as background viewing. Not everything has to be this mad attack on stupid, knobhead wrestling fans who don’t even post on here.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Supremo

[Supremo]

Double post. Or is it a work?

Edited April 13, 2020 by Supremo

[King Pitcos]

2 hours ago, UK Kat Von D said:

Charlotte was the one who got booed because she always wins and was the chosen one, not Ronda. That was because she was given the match that the fans wanted Becky to have.

Bit weird then that when Charlotte battered Ronda, people chanted “thank you, Charlotte.” 

[UK Kat Von D]

45 minutes ago, King Pitcos said:

Bit weird then that when Charlotte battered Ronda, people chanted “thank you, Charlotte.” 

Ah yes, I remember now. Charlotte was also the hero against Rousey. If Becky hadn’t been involved at all Charlotte would have been the clear favourite 

[King Pitcos]

7 minutes ago, Supremo said:

That’s not the case on here though. The UKFF is one of the best places online for chat about matches and storylines based on their merit, yet the way it forever devolves down the straw-man, “Vince ain’t my real dad,” route is absolutely tiresome and impossible to engage with because almost no-one on here has that perspective.

Even if that were true (and it’s definitely not as true as it used to be), it wouldn’t matter here for two reasons:

1) The UKFF would be the minority compared to the overall hivemind opinion found in most online fan discussion about wrestling (“Vince isn’t my real dad”).

2) like it WWE storylines and performers frequently play on those hivemind opinions (“Vince isn’t my real dad”).

Unless you’re disputing either of those points, then discussing the “Vince isn’t my real dad” angle on any developments/content is at least as relevant as the “Knowing Vince” type stuff that’s frequently used on here. Especially in this case, where Rousey is specifically winding up the “Vince isn’t my real dad” fans.

[UK Kat Von D]

3 minutes ago, King Pitcos said:

2) like it WWE storylines and performers frequently play on those hivemind opinions (“Vince isn’t my real dad”).

They successfully did it with Kofi, although the popularity of New Day and Daniel Bryan’s excellent work played a part in that. Can’t think of any other times they have made it work really. Maybe RVD at One Night Stand against Cena which was 14 years ago.

[King Pitcos]

1 minute ago, UK Kat Von D said:

They successfully did it with Kofi, although the popularity of New Day and Daniel Bryan’s excellent work played a part in that. Can’t think of any other times they have made it work really. Maybe RVD at One Night Stand against Cena which was 14 years ago.

What is your criteria for success there?

[UK Kat Von D]

Just now, King Pitcos said:

What is your criteria for success there?

Something on the level of Kofi or the RVD match. Can you think of any time they have successfully engineered that type of story into an actual pay off?

[Retro Red]

Bryan/Orton/Batista.

[UK Kat Von D]

1 minute ago, Bicurious Dad said:

Bryan/Orton/Batista.

I don’t consider that to be in this category because that wasn’t the plan from the start. They had to adapt because they had gotten it really wrong. Was also six years ago, so doesn’t really show WWE “frequently playing on hive mind opinions.”

[King Pitcos]

3 minutes ago, UK Kat Von D said:

Something on the level of Kofi or the RVD match. Can you think of any time they have successfully engineered that type of story into an actual pay off?

What does “something on the level of Kofi or the RVD match” even mean? 🤣 Until you’ve specified what you actually mean by successful, I’m not sure what you’re after. I also didn’t even mention success in the original post, so I’m not sure if your point is that WWE should ignore fans like you rather than working you lol.

But here are a dozen times I’d consider playing on that mindset to have been successful in some way (either financially, or elevating someone, or just my own enjoyment):

Cena vs Edge feud in 2006

Cena vs Punk at Money in the Bank 2011 (and to a lesser extent, pretty much all of their matches after that)

Cena vs Bryan at SummerSlam 2013

Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania 30

Cena vs Lesnar at SummerSlam 2014

Rollins cashing in Money in the Bank at WrestleMania 31

Roman Reigns promo on Raw the night after WrestleMania 33

Becky Lynch vs Charlotte Flair feud in 2018

Becky Lynch winning the WrestleMania 35 main event (though that is kind of the same as the previous one, so I won’t count it)

KofiMania

Drew McIntyre eliminating Brock from this year’s Royal Rumble

All of the Royal Rumble endings where Roman Reigns gets eliminated at the end

Cena in the Firefly Fun House

[Retro Red]

Kofi wasn't the 'plan' either, and no matter at what point Bryan became the plan they still then crafted it beautifully playing into the movement to make the fans feel they helped him get to the gold.

[UK Kat Von D]

18 minutes ago, Bicurious Dad said:

Kofi wasn't the 'plan' either, and no matter at what point Bryan became the plan they still then crafted it beautifully playing into the movement to make the fans feel they helped him get to the gold.

Well they clicked onto it quick enough for me to consider it to be part of a plan as opposed to the triple threat match which took them forever to change course with.

19 minutes ago, King Pitcos said:

Cena vs Edge feud in 2006

Cena vs Punk at Money in the Bank 2011 (and to a lesser extent, pretty much all of their matches after that)

Cena vs Bryan at SummerSlam 2013

Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania 30

Cena vs Lesnar at SummerSlam 2014

Rollins cashing in Money in the Bank at WrestleMania 31

Roman Reigns promo on Raw the night after WrestleMania 33

Becky Lynch vs Charlotte Flair feud in 2018

Becky Lynch winning the WrestleMania 35 main event (though that is kind of the same as the previous one, so I won’t count it)

KofiMania

Drew McIntyre eliminating Brock from this year’s Royal Rumble

All of the Royal Rumble endings where Roman Reigns gets eliminated at the end

Cena in the Firefly Fun House

The Punk match wasn’t crafted as much as they gave him a live mic and got some pleasant returns off it. Nobody knew what they had before the pipe bomb. Daniel Bryan wasn’t planned at all. Neither was Rollins cashing in. Was the plan always supposed to be Becky as part of a triple threat? She was popular because of character work, not because of stubborn fans being confused about who their father is. Drew eliminated Brock as anyone would have eliminated a monster heel. Don’t know why you included the Fun House match. I’d have let you have Roman after Mania if it had lead to an amazing heel run, but that isn’t what they wanted. They just allowed him to get booed for ages (and it did make for a great segment but went no where.)

WWE have had to change course a few times because they have gauged fan reactions wrongly. They don’t frequently plan stories around the reaction of a hive mind. Trying to salvage a mess they have made is clearly very different.

I guess one time they did try it was when they put the belt on Sheamus because they knew fans would hate that more than they would hate it being on Reigns. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by UK Kat Von D