Paid Members PunkStep Posted January 24, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2018 1 hour ago, The Maestro said: It was no doubt worse in years gone by, it's just that more people have found their voice and had the courage to speak out against the kind of bullshit we have the misfortune to read about these days. Yeah, definitely this. In addition to this, chuck in social media making it easier to make problems you've faced known and also a change in general attitude in terms of what is and isn't right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAREBEAR LUVVA Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 10 hours ago, tiger_rick said: A recent huge disappointment that I won't spoil is just a further sign that on and off screen, it's not anything like I want it to be. What's this about? Stick it in some spoiler tags for us... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted January 24, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, PunkStep said: Yeah, definitely this. In addition to this, chuck in social media making it easier to make problems you've faced known and also a change in general attitude in terms of what is and isn't right. Yeah, and I think we always kind of assumed/pretended it was a thing of the past due to things like the infamous sleaze list. Apart from the odd couple of slinks such as Marty and Shawn, I assumed the 80’s behaviour changed after the early 90’s steroid/sexual abuse scandals. You then heard about shit like Benoit which was a massive shock to the system, the odd spousal abuse shit like Austin and back stage ‘ribs’ from Bradshaw. Maybe complete naivety but I didn’t realise it’s been as bad as it has. Edited January 24, 2018 by Kaz Hayashi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Maestro Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Do we think that the attitude we look at wrestlers has changed as well? Some of us look back fondly (tongue in cheek perhaps) at the good ol' days when the wrestlers would pop pills and bang ring rats whilst looking down on the lads of today for staying in and playing their console. Reading about a lot of the things that have transpired during my adulthood has made me realise how bullshit a lot of the macho culture I grew up with was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members seph Posted January 24, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2018 TMZ has posted a video of the victim talking about the assault (PNSFW just in case). Ignoring the detritus from the comments section, She seems to defer from what's been circulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) Her 'friend' has posted a video saying she is full of shit, basically. He includes screen shots from a text conversation the following morning saying she has fucked this guy, later saying she was still laying in bed next to him and he is a famous wrestler. She is being hauled over the coals on Twitter for the inconsistency of her story - mainly saying she was in a psych ward for 45 days after the incident only to later say she was meant to be there for 45 but was actually there for 26 after people pointed out she had been posting on Twitter about going shopping etc. In fact, her most recent post, where she says the 'friend' who posted the texts refuting her story is mentally unstable has received, up until now, universal condemnation. I hope for her sake everything she has said is true. Its all such a crazy situation.  Edited January 24, 2018 by Snitsky's back acne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 24, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, The Maestro said: Do we think that the attitude we look at wrestlers has changed as well? Some of us look back fondly (tongue in cheek perhaps) at the good ol' days when the wrestlers would pop pills and bang ring rats whilst looking down on the lads of today for staying in and playing their console. Reading about a lot of the things that have transpired during my adulthood has made me realise how bullshit a lot of the macho culture I grew up with was. I don't think I ever looked fondly on that sort of behaviour, but just sort of saw it as part of the obvious lifestyle of being on the road and being a celebrity, and it all generally being a fucked up business, and never gave it much thought. As I've got older, the more I've found it uncomfortable reading about "ribs" and reading "fun road stories" or ways of making rookies pay their dues that are basically abuse. It was a struggle at points in Liam's Brian Pillman book, because I was a great admirer of Pillman's work, but most accounts of his behaviour out of the ring made him sound like someone I'd absolutely hate. Part of me thinks about it in terms of an old cliché about television - "it's a way to be entertained by people you'd never invite into your home"; I don't have to like these people, just be entertained by them. But when it comes to something as horrific as this, it goes beyond that. And I wouldn't be remotely surprised to hear that this sort of thing was far more rife in the '80s - but what wrestling has always done is close ranks, keep secrets, and protect its own, so there's probably a shocking amount of this stuff that happened and we'll never hear about.  I'm trying to stay away from comments on the story - I know there's people calling her story into question, saying that she's been inconsistent or whatever, or pointing to previous lies she's told, or whatever, but I'm no mood to scour through the usual shitstorm of comments on this sort of story. But, from what I can tell, the police report was filed from a hospital a couple of days after the incident - she was tested, bought a rape kit and so on, and the report coming from there lends it far more credibility, and means it would be far better documented, than the assumption that it's just some crazy woman making spurious accusations. Also, you have to ask what motivation she would have to make the allegation - she went to the police in October, and has stayed quiet until now, and the investigation is ongoing - this isn't an out of the blue cry for attention, nor is it the behaviour of someone just after money (because there seem to be any number of male commenters online convinced that accusing someone of rape is a fast track to fame and fortune, for some reason); frankly, if you're going to use a rape allegation as a means to get money out of someone you don't go public, you don't go to the police, you blackmail the person with the threat of doing those things. Nothing about this points to a fake accusation, to my eyes. She might be inconsistent, she might be a liar, she might have a track record of mental illness and drug abuse. None of those things preclude the possibility that she was raped. Edited January 24, 2018 by BomberPat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snitsky's back acne Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, BomberPat said: She might be inconsistent, she might be a liar, she might have a track record of mental illness and drug abuse. None of those things preclude the possibility that she was raped. Oh absolutely and it certainly shows how the rape culture that is being highlighted through the #MeToo campaign has been allowed to exist for so long. It's the same with Moses Malone, who accused wrestler Sean Orleans of raping her and Michael Elgin of covering for it - she is also by her own confession a recovering drug addict etc. so her claims in some circles [and by that I mean 'some people who post on Twitter and Dave Meltzer'] have also been dismissed as those of a 'crazy druggie' etc. and an Instagram has even been set up by someone as a means of discrediting her. No matter what the outcome ends up being, Enzo was incredibly foolish/naive/arrogant for not telling WWE he was under investigation for rape and allowing them to feature him prominently on their TV show. It's incredibly bad PR for them and they had to act accordingly.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members BomberPat Posted January 24, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2018 And in both cases I've seen people bringing up that they've taken/sold nude photos, as if having a sexual identity means you can't have been raped, or as if the evidence of continued sexuality after the fact is evidence that it "wasn't that bad". It's no different to saying she was "asking for it", and it's abhorrent. In Malone's case, I think there's actually been a concerted effort to discredit her, which is even more upsetting than it "just" being blokes not getting it. There have been at least two Twitter accounts set up with the sole purpose of insulting and undermining her, one of them alleging to be somebody who had exchanged emails with Elgin, but who Malone and others managed to prove doesn't exist. Whether it's Elgin himself, or someone close to him, there's definitely dodgy shit going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members seph Posted January 24, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2018 35 minutes ago, Snitsky's back acne said: No matter what the outcome ends up being, Enzo was incredibly foolish/naive/arrogant for not telling WWE he was under investigation for rape and allowing them to feature him prominently on their TV show. It's incredibly bad PR for them and they had to act accordingly. ... thus in the best case scenario where he's absolved entirely, he still won't be coming back for at least a year or so at a time where he was the only reason an entire TV programme was worth doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grecian Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 Away from Enzo, the 2019 Rumble is being held in Phoenix, from a major league baseball stadium for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoote Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 On paper, a great choice. Retractable roof, January temps usually mid-teens, huge international airport and plentiful utilities (being the state capital and all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members Kaz Hayashi Posted January 24, 2018 Paid Members Share Posted January 24, 2018 5 hours ago, BomberPat said: Also, you have to ask what motivation she would have to make the allegation - she went to the police in October, and has stayed quiet until now, and the investigation is ongoing - this isn't an out of the blue cry for attention. Everything in your extended version of this post is bang on. The only thing I would say is that depending upon the severity of her mental health difficulty, and the specifics, false accusations, whether it be for extreme attention seeking, or because she truly believes she has been raped is unfortunately something that does occur. It’s a failing on her mental health suppprt system if this is the case. Just to state, I’m in no way saying that this hasn’t happened to her, we don’t know, simple as that. It should 100% be investigated thoroughly based on the evidence provided. Until then it’s basic opinion. It’s not fair to condem either at all. But the one thing I’m in full agreement is WWEs decision to let him go. If he’s proven innocent, then he can potentially be brought back. All I’m getting at is it’s not always as simple as having a motive so to speak. Either way, whether it did or didn’t happen, I truly hope she receives all the help she needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I don’t understand why sharing it on social media AFTER going to police. Surely only harms her case as makes the accused able to say any dury would be biased by social media? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Houchen Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Grecian said: Away from Enzo, the 2019 Rumble is being held in Phoenix Yeah, probably best to keep him on the other side of the country. Â EDIT - In regards to going public, people feel they have a voice that can be heard now after how #MeToo broke down a lot of barriers. Â We saw with Yewtree that people felt like they were going to be believed. Â Perhaps this women wanted to belong? Â She certainly needs medical help and I hope she gets it. Edited January 24, 2018 by Keith Houchen . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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