David Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Although not strictly wrestling-related, the UFC debuting on FOX Sports tonight signals a landmark in their business plan as far as the future goes. Their deal with FOX is a seven year deal, widely touted at being worth $100 million per year to the company. Â Now, whilst this is by no way comparable to deals that the likes of the NBA ($930 million per year) or MLB ($702 million per year) have with their network providers, it's a starting point. Â By going down this avenue it would be hoped that by the time the initial seven year period comes to an end the UFC would be in position to secure themselves a television deal much like the NFL, NBA & MLB have, which sees the interest in their product being so high that they really have no need for the PPV model anymore financially. They can still use the PPV system for certain fights if they so wish (even if whichever network they're with may be asking why a certain fight isn't being shown on their platform rather than PPV), but no longer find themselves having to rely on it. Â The UFC made somewhere in the region of $200 million via PPV revenue in 2011 (I'm not really sure how much WWE made either domestically or internationally last year) so I seriously doubt we'll see the demise of PPV for the UFC in the next ten years or so, but it is surely on the agenda. Â It could be said that the switch from network television to PPV is what kickstarted the decline in boxing. Back in the golden era of the sports, when the likes of Frazier & Ali were at the top of the sport, network television played a major part in beaming these fights & fighters into homes all over the US and parts of the world. Â I guess the question as far as pro wrestling goes, is where are they going in the next ten years or so? The UFC have started laying the groundwork to become less relaint on the PPV business model down the line. Â Unless I'm mistaken WWE have seen their PPV numbers drop consistently for years now, haven't they? It's a trend which I don't see being reversed any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted November 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 12, 2011 As far as pro wrestling goes, I can't see how it can gain consistantly high pay-per-view buys again in the near future. They've over saturated the market with so many PPVs and there isn't much worth paying for that you cant see for free everyweek (and a lot of people aren't even doing that). Even the big ones aren't doing well anymore (apart from WrestleMania). The old thing was that if the WWF did 200,000 buys on a pay-per-view, Vince McMahon would be smashing shit up in his office. They've lost some big stars and special attraction wrestlers over the years as well, and have yet to replace them. Jeff Hardy, Batista, Jericho, Shawn Michaels and Edge aren't there anymore. Undertaker is a part timer now and only does one match a year. No Rey Mysterio. This poor cunt was getting carried to his car even before his went down with an injury a few people are saying he might not come back from. There's no Hogan, Foley, Flair or those types to do a special hype match like they'd do in 2005 and increase a SummerSlam buyrate. Austin doesn't make a difference when he comes back, Bret Hart means less each time you see him and The Rock is a glimmer of hope, but he's only a quick fix. You only have to look at WWE's roster. Nobody is over to a large degree. Punk and Del Rio is probably the worst World title feud ever. They are both losers. One's a coward who cant win a match, so has to bully his way into the title picture when a man is injured (he's the babyface by the way) and the other bloke we are told is a boring, greasy, unentertaining champion, and its hard to disagree because he is. Â I think they've lost perspective, when it comes to building stars. They dont seem to build new characters. In 2011, you have like-for-like replacements, but they are just shoved down the average viewers throat and you cant grow to like them as much as the ones before. You have the Miz, who I suppose is the new Jericho type character. He wears the suit, he does the rambling promos but he's shoved into high profile feuds and never gets his shit in. Jericho had that feud with Michaels which established him in that heel role. Miz is just ... there. Getting slapped about everyweek. You have a new Kurt Angle, in Jack Swagger who does all the moves and wears the same shit Angle wears but doesn't measure up. We have a new Rey Mysterio, in Sin Cara who is fucking rotten, but Mexicans like him (even though they dont build up his return to Mexico on TV and they hate putting him on live TV). Del Rio's JBL, I'd imagine. Mason Ryan's Batista. I suppose they are trying to slot CM Punk into Jeff Hardy's old role of being the person the fans are desperate to see, but contrary to popular belief, he doesnt come close to drawing what Jeff Hardy was drawing in 2008/09 in terms of merch sales or PPV buys. And all the ones mentioned usually just swap wins back and forth and nobody remains over. Its like Kevin Sullivan said, having heat is like a balloon. You have to keep letting it inflate, but once you let the air out, your fucked. There needs to be more consistancy and actually build the stars instead of the insider reference shite and playing it all for laughs. Â Sounds bitter, but it isn't really. I still love watching it, but they seemed to have lost patience these days. I watch TNA, so nobody can judge me for liking a product based on how well business is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Screen Up Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 This is perhaps a stretch to ask for but as I'm on my phone and nowhere near a computer at the minute, I'm unable to do so, so here goes - can somebody tally up all of the WWE pay-per-view buys from 2000, 2005 and 2010. Sure, individually the PPV's are attracting smaller buy rates than in year's passed, but I'm just wondering if on an annual basis, WWE are in fact selling more PPV buys than ever. I may well be wrong here but if somebody could check this out it could be quite interesting. Probably not, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loligan Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I watched Sully's End of WCW Shoot last night. He really does believe in things being built. I think he's right as well. Problem being, I dont think in wrestling in 2011 allows for it with the amount of saturation in the ppv market. Â Stars are built and destroyed in weeks. Everyones been a world champion almost. They dont build a desire to see a payoff well anymore. They don't do everything wrong but it's like they stumble upon the stuff that goes right. Like Mark Henry, they waited 15 years to give him the title push and he's been incredible. The longer he is champion the more I start to think, "I wonder who's gonna beat him?" So I watch all his matches to see if it happens. Its not rocket science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted November 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 12, 2011 Royal Rumble 2000 590,000 Â No Way Out 2000 480,000 Â Wrestlemania 2000 824,000 Â Backlash 2000 675,000 Â Judgement Day 2000 420,000 Â KOTR 2000 475,000 Â Fully Loaded 2000 420,000 Â Summerslam 2000 570,000 Â Unforgiven 2000 605,000 Â No Mercy 2000 550,000 Â Survivor Series 2000 400,000 Â Armageddon 2000 465,000 Â Royal Rumble 2001 550,000 Â No Way Out 590,000 Â Wrestlemania 17 1,040,000 Â Backlash 2001 375,000 Â Judgement Day 2001 405,000 Â King of the Ring 2001 445,000 Â Invasion 2001 775,000 Â Summerslam 2001 565,000 Â Unforgiven 2001 350,000 Â No Mercy 2001 325,000 Â Survivor Series 2001 450,000 Â Vengeance 2001 315,000 Â Royal Rumble 2002 670,000 Â No Way Out 2002 575,000 Â WrestleMania X8 840,000 Â Backlash 2002 400,000 Â Judgment Day 2002 373,000 Â King of the Ring 2002 320,000 Â Vengeance 2002 375,000 Â SummerSlam 2002 520,000 Â Unforgiven 2002 300,000 Â No Mercy 2002 300,000 Â Survivor Series 2002 340,000 Â Armageddon 2002 335,000 Â Royal Rumble 2003 585,000 Â No Way Out 2003 450,000 Â WrestleMania XIX 560,000 Â Backlash 2003 345,000 Â Judgment Day 2003 315,000 Â Badd Blood 2003 385,000 Â Vengeance 2003 322,000 Â SummerSlam 2003 415,000 Â Unforgiven 2003 280,000 Â No Mercy 2003 240,000 Â Survivor Series 2003 398,000 Â Armageddon 2003 217,000 Â Royal Rumble 2004 582,000 Â No Way Out 2004 266,000 Â WrestleMania XX 886,000 Â Backlash 2004 290,000 Â Judgement Day 2004 220,000 Â Bad Blood 2004 264,000 Â Great American Bash 2004 233,000 Â Vengeance 2004 232,000 Â SummerSlam 2004 387,000 Â Unforgiven 2004 243,000 Â No Mercy 2004 193,000 Â Taboo Tuesday 2004 174,000 Â Survivor Series 2004 373,000 Â Armageddon 2004 242,000 Â New Year's Revolution 2005 275,000 Â Royal Rumble 2005 564,000 Â No Way Out 2005 239,000 Â WrestleMania XXI 983,000 Â Backlash 2005 273,000 Â Judgement Day 2005 236,000 Â One Night Stand 2005 268,000 Â Vengeance 2005 320,000 Â Great American Bash 2005 233,000 Â SummerSlam 2005 534,000 Â Unforgiven 2005 225,000 Â No Mercy 2005 219,000 Â Taboo Tuesday 2005 215,000 Â Survivor Series 2005 375,000 Â Armageddon 2005 280,000 Â New Year's Revolution 2006 294,000 Â Royal Rumble 2006 548,000 Â No Way Out 2006 219,000 Â WrestleMania 22 958,000 Â Backlash 2006 213,000 Â Judgement Day 2006 238,000 Â One Night Stand 2006 294,000 Â Vengeance 2006 339,000 Â No Mercy 2006 197,000 Â Cyber Sunday 2006 228,000 Â Survivor Series 2006 383,000 Â December to Dismember 2006 90,000 Â Armageddon 2006 239,000 Â New Year's Revolution 2007 220,000 Â Royal Rumble 2007 491,000 Â No Way Out 2007 218,000 Â WrestleMania 23 1,188,000 Â Backlash 2007 194,000 Â Judgement Day 2007 242,000 Â One Night Stand 2007 186,000 Â Vengeance 2007 243,000 Â Great American Bash 2007 229,000 Â SummerSlam 2007 537,000 Â Unforgiven 2007 210,000 Â No Mercy 2007 271,000 Â Cyber Sunday 2007 194,000 Â Survivor Series 2007 341,000 Â Armageddon 2007 237,000 Â Royal Rumble 2008 533,000 Â No Way Out 2008 329,000 Â WrestleMania XXIV 1,058,000 Â Backlash 2008 200,000 Â Judgement Day 2008 252,000 Â One Night Stand 2008 194,000 Â Night of Champions 2008 273,000 Â Great American Bash 2008 196,000 Â SummerSlam 2008 477,000 Â Unforgiven 2008 211,000 Â No Mercy 2008 261,000 Â Cyber Sunday 2008 153,000 Â Survivor Series 2008 319,000 Â Armageddon 2008 193,000 Â Royal Rumble 2009 450,000 Â No Way Out 2009 272,000 Â WrestleMania XXV 960,000 Â Backlash 2009 182,000 Â Judgement Day 2009 228,000 Â Extreme Rules 2009 213,000 Â The Bash 2009 178,000 Â Night of Champions 2009 267,000 Â SummerSlam 2009 369,000 Â Breaking Point 2009 169,000 Â Hell in a Cell 2009 283,000 Â Bragging Rights 2009 181,000 Â Survivor Series 2009 235,000 Â TLC 2009 228,000 Â Royal Rumble 2010 462,000 Â Elimination Chamber 2010 285,000 Â WrestleMania XXVI 885,000 Â Extreme Rules 2010 182,000 Â Over the Limit 2010 197,000 Â Fatal 4 Way 2010 143,000 Â Money in the Bank 2010 165,000 Â SummerSlam 2010 350,000 Â Night of Champions 2010 165,000 Â Hell in a Cell 2010 210,000 Â Bragging Rights 2010 137,000 Â Survivor Series 2010 244,000 Â TLC 2010 195,000 Â Royal Rumble 2011 446,000 Â Elimination Chamber 2011 199,000 Â WrestleMania XXVII 1,059,000 Â Extreme Rules 2011 209,000 Â Over the Limit 2011 140,000 Â Capitol Punishment 2011 170,000 Â Money in the Bank 2011 185,000 Â SummerSlam 2011 302,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loligan Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 found this from 2004 onwards, Â 2004:4.531M buys(average of 323 643 buys) 2005:4.964M buys(average of 354 571 buys) 2006:4.240M buys(average of 326 154 buys) 2007:4.781M buys(average of 341 500 buys) 2008:4.649M buys(average of 332 071 buys) 2009:4.215M buys(average of 301 071 buys) 2010:3.720M buys(average of 286 154 buys) 2011:2.710M buys(average of 338 750 buys) Â so if that's right they are way down, but then the cost of them has increased so the financials might not be worlds apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members seph Posted November 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 12, 2011 I suppose they are trying to slot CM Punk into Jeff Hardy's old role of being the person the fans are desperate to see, but contrary to popular belief, he doesnt come close to drawing what Jeff Hardy was drawing in 2008/09 in terms of merch sales or PPV buys. Â I'd rather have someone like Punk drawing a reasonable amount from his early 30s because his lifestyle could take his career into his late 40s and he could still draw that. Jeff drew really good money in an 8-year spell and is now a wreck trading on what's left of his name. Â And If Rey is done then with no disrespect to his achievement it was on the cards. He did pretty much the same match 10 years on the trot, he's had several ops on the same limb and he hadn't changed his style a bit. He also had almost no character, he was made to look a complete bitch by the 'giants' and his title reign was a months-long turtle-job that made him look really weak. Â Other than those points, you're spot-on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted November 12, 2011 Paid Members Share Posted November 12, 2011 I'd rather have someone like Punk drawing a reasonable amount from his early 30s because his lifestyle could take his career into his late 40s and he could still draw that. Jeff drew really good money in an 8-year spell and is now a wreck trading on what's left of his name. I'd rather have that as well. My point was thrusting someone in a role because "he fits" isn't doing the company or the performer any favours. Like when they put Bret Hart in the headline spot out of the blue in 1992 because he didn't look like he was on steroids and they wanted to project a different image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotalDebacle Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Do we think there's an audience for slower builds between PPVs? Or is the more modern audience too used to things moving at a quick pace? Â I mean is it legitimately possible to lower the amount of PPVs and have more buildup between them? Will people stick with it? Â I suppose it isn't impossible because say, instead of having Orton/Christian in 3 PPV main events, you just have them in 1. It'd realistically be the same prolonged amount of buildup anyway, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Screen Up Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Thanks for that, Ian. A huge help. In 2000 they sold a total of 6,474,000 buys over 12 events, an average of 539,000 per PPV. In 2005 they sold a total of 5,194,000 buys over 15 events, an average of 346,267 buys per event. In 2010 they sold 3,620,000 buys over 13 events, an average of 278,462 buys per PPV. Sorry if it's not too clear, like I say I'm typing this on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 An ideal move for a company like WWE would be to go back to the so-called "big four" as actual PPV's, and screen the other supershows as 3 hour specials on a network like NBC, or their own network if it ever comes about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajmcstyles Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 An ideal move for a company like WWE would be to go back to the so-called "big four" as actual PPV's, and screen the other supershows as 3 hour specials on a network like NBC, or their own network if it ever comes about. Is'nt that what WWE are doing with the WWE network? I cant remember if I saw correctly but WWE would so most things bar the major PPV's.  Wrestling PPV's in find a dying breed  For boxing and MMA they going strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 An ideal move for a company like WWE would be to go back to the so-called "big four" as actual PPV's, and screen the other supershows as 3 hour specials on a network like NBC, or their own network if it ever comes about. Is'nt that what WWE are doing with the WWE network? I cant remember if I saw correctly but WWE would so most things bar the major PPV's.  Wrestling PPV's in find a dying breed  For boxing and MMA they going strong I don't know, I'm not as clued up on this WWE network as others may be. I've been hearing about it for that long that I've gave up on it to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Pitcos Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Do we think there's an audience for slower builds between PPVs? Or is the more modern audience too used to things moving at a quick pace? I mean is it legitimately possible to lower the amount of PPVs and have more buildup between them? Will people stick with it?  I suppose it isn't impossible because say, instead of having Orton/Christian in 3 PPV main events, you just have them in 1. It'd realistically be the same prolonged amount of buildup anyway, right? It's possible to do it, but I doubt it'd make sense financially. The one Orton/Christian PPV with longer buildup probably wouldn't draw more than the three or four separate PPVs did combined. Plus, I don't think WWE could sustain that length for feuds. Maybe as a one-off, but not on a consistent basis. The lack of creativity is so bad that if they've got three weeks to build an Orton/Christian match, they have them wrestle each other on free TV at least two of those weeks. If they've got a twelve-week build and have them wrestle each other nine times in that (and they fucking would do), by the time the PPV comes around, nobody will be interested in paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Screen Up Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 One point that is usually mentioned when this topic is discussed is that there is a very small "must see" factor with today's pay-per-views. There has been plenty of times where I've skipped watching a PPV because I know I'll be straight back up to date with the following night's Raw. I wonder how it would work if they didn't hold a televised episode of Raw until the week after each PPV, perhaps barring the Rumble and 'Mania. They could recoup some of the losses by holding a house show and filling the TV void by holding some kind of once-per-month new concept show. It may just entice more people to order the pay-per-views if they feel like they won't be getting another fix of WWE until the following week, or at the earliest SmackDown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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