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Raw Halloween discussion and spoilers thread


IANdrewDiceClay

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Oh yeah, I typed the wrong word, fucking hell, stop the presses.

 

Weren't you bitching about Richie being pedantic in another thread?!

Yeah, but you fell into the classic "making a fuck-up at the same time as calling someone stupid" scenario. As the board's king prick, I'd be remiss to ignore that.

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Mankind did do the same thing to Shane Mcmahon to get a title shot but the context is totally different.

 

We'd seen Mankind get screwed out of the title time and time again by the Mcmahons and Rock and even though it's probably not what a proper babyface should do we don't mind because Mankind is giving them a little taste of their own medicine. Plus, Mankind was a likeable underdog babyface. Punks just a dick.

 

What has Del Rio done to Punk to deserve that? Another reason I don't like this babyface Punk is if you look at it Kayfabe wise what has he done to deserve a title shot? He's been pinned at Night of Champions, Hell in a Cell and Vengence. Thats 3 PPV's in a row. He doesn't deserve a title shot in the first place despite his constant whining.

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The Positive:

 

Sheamus and Beaker Backstage.

Swagger and Ziggler stretching Gonzo's arms.

Zack Ryder having a cracking little match against Dolph that shows he can hang in the midcard.

 

The Negative:

 

Big Show vs Del Rio

Punk and Del Rio interaction

The Divas

John Cena taking care of both the Miz and R -Truth rendering the 'need' to have The Rock as his partner rather pointless. Cena needs to be gang RAPED next week to make people think The Rock is needed. If not I'd have thought people debating getting the PPV won't bother.

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Punk's character and actions (which are determined by writers)

False -- at least if we're ever going to praise Punk himself for his character and actions. "The writers are only to blame for the bad things" is the worst kind of attitude. If we're criticising the writers every time a wrestler does something we don't like, we should credit them when a wrestler does something we like. And it's by the by anyway, because the likes of Punk and Cena have enough clout to overrule anything they think is shit. If they're performing something on TV, it's because they've either A) read the script and gone "yeah, I'm up for that" or B) changed the script and done something else. Either way, they're as responsible for their own failures as they are for their own successes.

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What is it that we are having a go at here though? Punk's character and actions (which are determined by writers) or his delivery of the material?

 

It's a cliche but both.

 

He's not been helped by the booking. For weeks he was a total arsehole to Triple H, accusing him of being part of the conspiracy, taunting him and making fun of his wife. He's eventually proven wrong and beaten one on one by Triple H. It doesn't make him look like a babyface hero. He looks like a dick who was an idiot and got his comeuppance at Night of Champions.

 

Another problem, and a far bigger one, for me is that I don't think he makes a good babyface. In my opinion he isn't likeable enough to get behind. You don't have to be whiter than white to be a good babyface, The Rock was a prick most of the time but he was so cool you still liked him. Punk isn't like that, he isn't cool enough to get away with acting like a dick. Instead of coming across as arrogant he comes across as smarmy.

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He's not been helped by the booking. For weeks he was a total arsehole to Triple H, accusing him of being part of the conspiracy, taunting him and making fun of his wife. He's eventually proven wrong and beaten one on one by Triple H. It doesn't make him look like a babyface hero. He looks like a dick who was an idiot and got his comeuppance at Night of Champions.

No he doesn't. The Night of Champions match was a big brilliant clusterfuck of interference, at no point did it seem like HHH had just been the better man on the night.

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Zack Ryder continues to impress. I remember the last time Raw was in Atlanta, the night after Wrestlemania (I was there, it was awesome) and Ryder got squashed in about 4 minutes by Mark Henry in the opening DARK match. Both have rocketed up the card from their respective positions at that time; Henry was in the midcard and Ryder was barely on the card full stop.

 

I hope it continues for Ryder, he's a prime example of someone turning his fortunes around effectively off of his own back, all through a YouTube show. I absolutely love him.

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Punk's character and actions (which are determined by writers)

False -- at least if we're ever going to praise Punk himself for his character and actions. "The writers are only to blame for the bad things" is the worst kind of attitude. If we're criticising the writers every time a wrestler does something we don't like, we should credit them when a wrestler does something we like. And it's by the by anyway, because the likes of Punk and Cena have enough clout to overrule anything they think is shit. If they're performing something on TV, it's because they've either A) read the script and gone "yeah, I'm up for that" or B) changed the script and done something else. Either way, they're as responsible for their own failures as they are for their own successes.

 

I don't think in terms of praising or bashing someone based on character or action on a written weekly tv show. I'd praise CM Punk for example if he had a good match or delivered a promo well. Because that is all 100% down to him. Writers cant do those parts of it. He has to take whats given and then go out and try to get it over the best way possible. If he fails at that then he deserves to take the flack for it, but to have a go at him for performing an angle he is told to go out and perform, it almost sounds like you think wrestling is real.

 

I think to say they have the ability to overrule anything they think is shit is a bit of a stretch as well.

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It's not like he's been gone for long anyway, plus people much prefer having him live. It's not like that one time he did a random promo for Smackdown and he hadn't been around for ages. Plus Wrestlemania sucked because of his involvement really. People are bound to get fed up.

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I don't think in terms of praising or bashing someone based on character or action on a written weekly tv show. I'd praise CM Punk for example if he had a good match or delivered a promo well. Because that is all 100% down to him. Writers cant do those parts of it. He has to take whats given and then go out and try to get it over the best way possible. If he fails at that then he deserves to take the flack for it, but to have a go at him for performing an angle he is told to go out and perform, it almost sounds like you think wrestling is real.

When you watch a film, is your only response "that was good acting" or "that was bad acting"? Even leaving your potential autism aside, none of us are privy to how much any given performance was ad-libbed or scripted, or whether the wrestler was involved in writing it or not. I don't think many people sit watching wrestling going "that is all pretend and someone else wrote the material but I give the performance 3/5" the whole time, unless they live in an asylum or are twelve and trying to impress their mates by showing how they know it's all fake.

 

When you were having a moan the other day about Miz and R-Truth not looking like enough of a threat, how is that different from people saying CM Punk looks like a cowardly prick now?

 

I think to say they have the ability to overrule anything they think is shit is a bit of a stretch as well.

You don't know what you're on about then. Of course they have. Every top WWE guy can play the "that doesn't work for me, brother" card. And that goes double for Big Rebel CM Punk, who wants to make wrestling fun again.

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