The Poppy - For Or Against?

[bobbins]

Because they hate Western policies, not Western freedoms. They see the West (quite accurately) as imperialist invaders. There's plenty reason enough to hate people who suicide bomb innocent people, without making up laughably bullshit motivations in an attempt to justify Western crimes.

[patiirc]

Before this gets locked, for people thread shitting. Id thought Id throw my two penneth in

 

I respect those who chose to wear the poppy, however I choose not to and will continue not to do because of the glorification of war that it has come to symbolise over the last decade of war.

 

There was a time when the poppy was worn as a sign to help the people who had fought in armed conflicts of the past and their struggles since then. However the symbol has becomed tarnished/embroiled in current political and other fashion to spear head a continued support of the current army and whatever wars they are fighting.

 

Ive know and have known plenty of people that have served in all facets of the armed forces and respect the choice that they make to do that. Ive even helped make and sell the poppy with my Gran and Grandad at points in the past when they were alive. My Grandad was chair of the local Legion at the time of his death having served during the war as a Mozzer navigator to some distinction, but the way the Legion, locally treated him after his death and all the infighting bickering and policticking that almost prevented a bugler from attending the funeral and even then they charged an arm and a leg for it despite, meaning to be their friend and comrade, has helped to put me off completely, despite all of the good work that they do.

 

I'am not going to buy into an idea that now celebrates and glorifies the current conflicts by trying to add, renewed kudos/justification/ I cant find the word Iam looking for if I'm honest, to a new way of life which means you must remember those fighting the current conflicts or else, you get treated like some kind of pariah for deigning not to support, this noble cause.

 

At a time when Royal Wotton Bassett gets a Royal praise for providing a horrible sideshow, sorry consolation for losing the airbase. And it was really ghastly. Afaik it caused in part by the townsfolk trying to save their airbase, and highlight that plight and not the overiding need to remember the dead, even if many people would say otherwise, as time has evolved because its importance in repatriation, or how the media wanted to blow it up to add some pizazz to the occasion and It was cynical ghoulish and a quite frankly disdainful thing, yet it is celebrated as being fantastic as being a brave and touching thing, despite imo it being anything of the sort.

 

That whole thing with the glorification and, potential martyrdom in death of people doing their jobs, despite them knowing that was a risk when they signed up sickens and abhors me, that it has now become embroiled with the poppy, makes me sad as well.

 

I realise Im going to get a load of hate coming my way for saying this and Ive said similar to this before and got a gutful. I respect those who wear the poppy and what it means to them, currently though Im not buying into it. If Remembrance Day, covered all nations, and people killed in conflict on either side whether Soilder or innocent bystander then, I'd be more inclined to support the notion. However as it stands the whole thing has become bastardised beyond belief So I will give it a miss, thanks

 

 

PS Last year or the year before, Ive seen people berated in town, for deigning to not wear a poppy, to the point that it nearly went to fisticuffs. Preston is a garrison town and surely proud of its past. But that kind of thing and telling people how they should remember things, indeed if they even want to remember it. Is not on and is indicative as to how emotive the whole thing has become. Remember them or else? WTF?

 

PPS. Im pretty certain, that Ive posted this before or at least similar and it was in response to Seph. Ill be damned if I can find it though on here

[seph]

Before this gets locked, for people thread shitting. Id thought Id throw my two penneth in

 

I respect those who chose to wear the poppy, however I choose not to and will continue not to do because of the glorification of war that it has come to symbolise over the last decade of war.

 

There was a time when the poppy was worn as a sign to help the people who had fought in armed conflicts of the past and their struggles since then. However the symbol has becomed tarnished/embroiled in current political and other fashion to spear head a continued support of the current army and whatever wars they are fighting.

 

Ive know and have known plenty of people that have served in all facets of the armed forces and respect the choice that they make to do that. Ive even helped make and sell the poppy with my Gran and Grandad at points in the past when they were alive. My Grandad was chair of the local Legion at the time of his death having served during the war as a Mozzer navigator to some distinction, but the way the Legion, locally treated him after his death and all the infighting bickering and policticking that almost prevented a bugler from attending the funeral and even then they charged an arm and a leg for it despite, meaning to be their friend and comrade, has helped to put me off completely, despite all of the good work that they do.

 

I'am not going to buy into an idea that now celebrates and glorifies the current conflicts by trying to add, renewed kudos/justification/ I cant find the word Iam looking for if I'm honest, to a new way of life which means you must remember those fighting the current conflicts or else, you get treated like some kind of pariah for deigning not to support, this noble cause.

 

At a time when Royal Wotton Bassett gets a Royal praise for providing a horrible sideshow, sorry consolation for losing the airbase. And it was really ghastly. Afaik it caused in part by the townsfolk trying to save their airbase, and highlight that plight and not the overiding need to remember the dead, even if many people would say otherwise, as time has evolved because its importance in repatriation, or how the media wanted to blow it up to add some pizazz to the occasion and It was cynical ghoulish and a quite frankly disdainful thing, yet it is celebrated as being fantastic as being a brave and touching thing, despite imo it being anything of the sort.

 

That whole thing with the glorification and, potential martyrdom in death of people doing their jobs, despite them knowing that was a risk when they signed up sickens and abhors me, that it has now become embroiled with the poppy, makes me sad as well.

 

I realise Im going to get a load of hate coming my way for saying this and Ive said similar to this before and got a gutful. I respect those who wear the poppy and what it means to them, currently though Im not buying into it. If Remembrance Day, covered all nations, and people killed in conflict on either side whether Soilder or innocent bystander then, I'd be more inclined to support the notion. However as it stands the whole thing has become bastardised beyond belief So I will give it a miss, thanks

 

 

PS Last year or the year before, Ive seen people berated in town, for deigning to not wear a poppy, to the point that it nearly went to fisticuffs. Preston is a garrison town and surely proud of its past. But that kind of thing and telling people how they should remember things, indeed if they even want to remember it. Is not on and is indicative as to how emotive the whole thing has become. Remember them or else? WTF?

 

PPS. Im pretty certain, that Ive posted this before or at least similar and it was in response to Seph. Ill be damned if I can find it though on here

 

I probably didn't debate your point, but as I've been asleep since then I'm not sure

 

I stand by what I think though, but there's little I can do other than hope people get home safe enough.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

Nobody signs up and goes out there to kill civilians, nobody signs up to get shot and come home in a box, the fuck are you to say who deserves what during a conflict, I'll tell you what join the army go the fuck out there instead of sitting behind a fucking computer judging whats right and wrong, legal and illegal

I would never join the army, because I know exactly what will be asked of me once I'm handed a gun and dropped in the middle of Iraq. I would suggest that other who joined the army also knew this when they signed up, no?

 

By signing your name on the dotted line and willingly taking part you are complicit in the illegal and horrendous acts that our armed forces are taking part in over there, it's really as simple as that.

 

To expect sympathy when the people who live in those countries take exception to you being there and deal with the situation in the only way available to them is ridiculous.

 

If you got a job running across a motorway all day you would have to know there's a good chance you're going to get run over. Same thing applies here.

 

 

May I ask what you think about the thousands of troops not involved in those conflicts? Do they nto deserve recognition and support? For example the UK troops involved with UN humanitarian efforts, peacekeeping under the UN rules, those defending UK territory by the very act of being there (Falklands) or those requested by the local government (Belieze, the Balkans and Kenya for examples).

 

Its not all bad shit from our troops.

[David]

May I ask what you think about the thousands of troops not involved in those conflicts? Do they nto deserve recognition and support? For example the UK troops involved with UN humanitarian efforts, peacekeeping under the UN rules, those defending UK territory by the very act of being there (Falklands) or those requested by the local government (Belieze, the Balkans and Kenya for examples).

 

Its not all bad shit from our troops.

Of course it isn't, but I don't think those troops decide where they go to work, do they? As I said, when you sign on the dotted line, you do so in the knowledge that the chances are good that you'll get sent out to take part in one of our illegal occupations.

 

Anyone who does that really should be taking a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror.

[Halitosis Romantic]

I like the poppy, and nicely, I can still get one over here.

[ReturnOfTheMack]

May I ask what you think about the thousands of troops not involved in those conflicts? Do they nto deserve recognition and support? For example the UK troops involved with UN humanitarian efforts, peacekeeping under the UN rules, those defending UK territory by the very act of being there (Falklands) or those requested by the local government (Belieze, the Balkans and Kenya for examples).

 

Its not all bad shit from our troops.

Of course it isn't, but I don't think those troops decide where they go to work, do they? As I said, when you sign on the dotted line, you do so in the knowledge that the chances are good that you'll get sent out to take part in one of our illegal occupations.

 

Anyone who does that really should be taking a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror.

 

 

Also chances are you'll be sent to do some of the non illegal things, the things that are important. Is it not worth that risk? Plus they may not believe that it was illegal, or they may agree that it was but they want to try to help as best they can.

 

You of all people should know its not all black and white lad.

[SpursRiot2012]

I don't care either way. I've been known to wear a poppy, and I've been known not to wear one.

 

Although, David, I think you should have chosen your original choice of words a bit more careful. To say they "deserve it" is pretty harsh. I've been considering joining up, not because I'm all "woo invasion yeaah" but because I feel it might help me to be a better person, in terms of fitness, maturity, learning skills, that sort of thing. If I happened to get shot dead during all this, you'd say I deserved it? Come on man.

[David]

Although, David, I think you should have chosen your original choice of words a bit more careful. To say they "deserve it" is pretty harsh. I've been considering joining up, not because I'm all "woo invasion yeaah" but because I feel it might help me to be a better person, in terms of fitness, maturity, learning skills, that sort of thing. If I happened to get shot dead during all this, you'd say I deserved it? Come on man.

In order to become a "better person" you're willing to take part in what's happening in the middle east? You know that the chances are good you'll be sent over there, yet you still consider signing up?

[big mickey]

May I ask what you think about the thousands of troops not involved in those conflicts? Do they nto deserve recognition and support? For example the UK troops involved with UN humanitarian efforts, peacekeeping under the UN rules, those defending UK territory by the very act of being there (Falklands) or those requested by the local government (Belieze, the Balkans and Kenya for examples).

 

Its not all bad shit from our troops.

Of course it isn't, but I don't think those troops decide where they go to work, do they? As I said, when you sign on the dotted line, you do so in the knowledge that the chances are good that you'll get sent out to take part in one of our illegal occupations.

 

Anyone who does that really should be taking a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror.

 

Well of course, but that doesn't mean you have to be a right bastard over there, you go where you are sent, if you agree with the reason for being there or not.

99% of the troops attempt to make a shitty situation better, it's not all about shooting people every day.

 

Does it make you a "better person"?

I think so, but thats just one opinion.

[David]

Well of course, but that doesn't mean you have to be a right bastard over there, you go where you are sent, if you agree with the reason for being there or not.

99% of the troops attempt to make a shitty situation better, it's not all about shooting people every day.

You're being a "right bastard" by being there in the first place. I'm sure any of the Afghan civilians who lost loved ones thanks to this invasion (of which there were almost 4,000 in the first three months of the operation) would agree.

[big mickey]

I give up!

I do! You win!

 

It's easier than having to respond to the single minded twaddle you spout lol

[David]

I give up!

I do! You win!

 

It's easier than having to respond to the single minded twaddle you spout lol

It's a discussion board, Mickey. If you don't want to take part in a particular discussion then simply don't get involved. If you believe that you're in the right then you'll have to provide some decent counter-arguments. Thus far, you haven't.

[big mickey]

I give up!

I do! You win!

 

It's easier than having to respond to the single minded twaddle you spout lol

It's a discussion board, Mickey. If you don't want to take part in a particular discussion then simply don't get involved. If you believe that you're in the right then you'll have to provide some decent counter-arguments. Thus far, you haven't.

 

But as far as you've made out we're all bad guys who murder innocent civilians all day

I'm never gonna change your opinion am I?

 

[Kiffy]

In order to become a "better person" you're willing to take part in what's happening in the middle east? You know that the chances are good you'll be sent over there, yet you still consider signing up?

 

Right now the stuff the british army is doing in the middle east is vital for the people there, even if some of them don't want our soldiers there the absoloute worst thing we could do is just leave iraq or afghanistan to destroy itself. We're currently working on setting up infrastructures, are involved in the opening of 100's more schools, hospitals, the mortality rate amongst children and babies is down even when you factor in children killed in conflicts.

Even if you didn't agree with the wars in the first instance, anyone signing up and going over there now is doing a good thing, despite it being hideously dangerous.