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Raw Discussion 10/10/11 **Spoilers**


tiger_rick

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I've wanted to back Jim Ross throughout his later career and the stuff he's gone through and the way he deals with it, but last night tipped it for me. Is he now officially the planet's biggest pussy? If he didn't know what was going to happen (and he clearly didn't care either way) he should have walked into the ring and smacked Johnny Ace. Or swore down a microphone. Or gave him the finger. Jim Ross needs to quit, never set foot in WWE again, and get on one of those shoot things and try and explain himself so we can feel sympathy for him again. What an absolute waste of time.

 

The prospect of Jim Ross finally cutting his ties and writing his non-WWE-endorsed autobiography excites me more than anything either of the two main companies are likely to produce creatively in the foreseeable future. However, it seems like he's either too far gone, or they're paying him an amazing wage to just continue to exist as a figure of ridicule.

 

Jim Ross is basically Vince McMahon's own personal Karl Pilkington.

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That show was terrible. There's no-one I can get behind - they've humiliated lots of the wrestlers/characters who made it fun to watch, the show is about a storyline I don't care about. It was just stuff - mainly stuff that didn't make sense or bullying stuff that was counterproductive. I'm going to survivor series and think I'm going to skip Raw until nearer the time and hope they get back to something fun.

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Either way, it bombed from WWE's point of view.

 

Outselling Capital Punishment and Over the Limit is bombing? Then what would you call those PPVs?

 

Bombs as well, but did they have the force put into promotion that was put into MITB? Did those PPV's have a main eventer who was pretty much given laissez faire on the mic in order to get the angle over? Were those PPV's expected to do well even by WWE? MITB was expected to do well internally by all accounts. It didn't. MITB was a bomb. It is what it is, and that's what people need to start accepting.

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That show was terrible. There's no-one I can get behind - they've humiliated lots of the wrestlers/characters who made it fun to watch, the show is about a storyline I don't care about. It was just stuff - mainly stuff that didn't make sense or bullying stuff that was counterproductive. I'm going to survivor series and think I'm going to skip Raw until nearer the time and hope they get back to something fun.

 

Cool I'm going to survivor series as well. Did you get good seats?

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Either way, it bombed from WWE's point of view.

 

Outselling Capital Punishment and Over the Limit is bombing? Then what would you call those PPVs?

 

Bombs as well, but did they have the force put into promotion that was put into MITB? Did those PPV's have a main eventer who was pretty much given laissez faire on the mic in order to get the angle over? Were those PPV's expected to do well even by WWE? MITB was expected to do well internally by all accounts. It didn't. MITB was a bomb. It is what it is, and that's what people need to start accepting.

R-Truth got a huge push before Capitol Punishment. He turned on the popular Morrison, sending him off for "neck surgery", he lit up a fag and started smoking around ringside (which in the current WWE climate is probably far more controversial than any of punk's insider stuff), got to rag and moan about WWE making him be a "dancin' smiling idiot", berated and mocked Cena's fans, and got to beat-down Cena on a number of occasions.

He got a proper heel-turn and push to the main events, and loads of TV time, yet his PPV number was way worse than Punk's.

 

No-one is being all 'hilarious' and calling R-Truth Mr PPV Failure or a ratings killer. It's just people who (for seemingly no good reason) are taking pleasure in mocking Punk because he's an "internet guy" and those stupid "internet fans" fap all over him.

 

Neither Punk nor Truth (despite a decent month-long build for both) suddenly became money-drawing top-shelf characters. Who, ever, in pro wrestling has gone from being a midcard heel one minute, to a genuine money-draw Main Eventer in a month?

 

It's double standards.

 

Another thing is that some of the people who are down on Punk because "he got a huge push and delivered nothing" are the same people saying "most of the stuff he said was too insider and only 20% of the audience cared". Make your minds up; did he get a great push and fail, or did he get a push that was never going to work because it only resonated with a small part of the audience. It can't be both.

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Do you really think that R-Truth had as much of the machine behind him for that month as CM Punk did? R-Truth was pretty much a comedy character after 3 weeks and hitting John Cena with a bottle of water for fucks sakes. When did R-Truth get to come out with a "pipebomb" and, break kayfabe on live TV, bury the company, bury one of the top talents, bury the top talents wife who happens to be Exec-VP of the company, cast aspersions on WWE'S Be A Star initative, namedrop people like Stinky Gyppo Heyman, and go on about his shit pasty mate Scotty Goldman who no-one really gives too much of a fuck about.

 

Another thing is that some of the people who are down on Punk because "he got a huge push and delivered nothing" are the same people saying "most of the stuff he said was too insider and only 20% of the audience cared". Make your minds up; did he get a great push and fail, or did he get a push that was never going to work because it only resonated with a small part of the audience. It can't be both.

 

Or is it the totally fucking obvious option three? Which is he was given a fantastic opportunity with lots of TV time which if he thought about it he could have used tremendously and spent it catering to the small part of the audience, thus wasting it. Wasting an opportunity which could have been given to someone else. He got a fantastic push and didn't take his opportunities while there with all his silly shit he says for the greasy haired neckbeards. He was still namedropping Rob Naylor and Art Donovan last night for the love of fuck. He was given the great push and didn't make of it what he should.

 

Or maybe his music is louder than everyone else's, who knows...

 

That's why people like to laugh at Punk and take joy in pointing out his failures, because the people drinking his Kool-Aid are the worst apologists in wrestling at the moment and should be stood up against a wall and fucking shot. Nothing has ever been Punk's fault in their eyes. It still isn't. Well, fuck that. It has been his fault quite a bit.

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That's why people like to laugh at Punk and take joy in pointing out his failures, because the people drinking his Kool-Aid are the worst apologists in wrestling at the moment and should be stood up against a wall and fucking shot. Nothing has ever been Punk's fault in their eyes. It still isn't. Well, fuck that. It has been his fault quite a bit.

Not going over it all again, it's all in that other thread but I don't like Punk and never have but it's all bullshit. He was given a reasonable push but like everything in WWE, they stick their weight behind 1 of 8 matches and wonder why the PPV doesn't do anything. Then they lose interest in the project that had going and fanny about with something else.

 

The fans don't give a shit about ratings and buyrates. If they took a longer term approach to both, they might get somewhere. Look at what they've done with Mark Henry. He's never drawn a dime and probably never will but he's great on TV at the moment and might just make a star if they continue to push him. Whoever takes the belt off him will have all the momentum in the world.

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R-Truth got a solid, old-school Heel turn, then was put into a program with the undisputed top face. Unfortunately you can't build a top-line money Heel (who draws more than normal) in a month. They tried the old-fashioned way with Truth and it didn't bring in the numbers.

 

Later they tried a different tactic with Punk, going the smart fan route and trying to get controversy that way. Once again though, you are never gonna build a new money-heel in a month. Even then, the Punk push did better than the Truth push, as the PPV did better numbers (it also outdrew the month before Truth's push).

 

Neither way created an instant Superstar, because you can't build an instant Superstar!

 

Whether Punk was scripted, bullet-pointed, or given free reign, they clearly told him to go out there and pander towards the internet and the smart-fans. That was their decision at the end of the day, even if it was Punk's idea.

 

If they expected him to suddenly become Steve Austin then of course they were disappointing, but it's hardly a total bomb failure if it does better numbers than the last two B PPVs. Either way, Punk is still in the main-event scene and is more over than he was (at a higher level) than before his push.

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Neither way created an instant Superstar, because you can't build an instant Superstar!

 

Is it instant? CM Punk has been in or around the top of cards since about 2008. It's not like they've dragged him from jobbing on Superstars and thrust him into main events. Or like they've taken Killer Kahn, had him go over Outback Jack once on Wrestling Challenge and then headline against Hulk Hogan in MSG. He was in the perfect position for something like this to put him over the top as far as I'm concerned. It just looks like he hasn't got it. He should worry about it, or cry, or retire, or hang himself, because a lot of people haven't. Or does WWE keep on throwing someone who's not a bonafide main eventer in main events until they become one? Or alternatively do you fuck him off, let him go to his natural position in the upper mid-card and put your resources behind someone who has a better chance at being a breakout main event star like a Sheamus.

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Neither way created an instant Superstar, because you can't build an instant Superstar!

 

Is it instant? CM Punk has been in or around the top of cards since about 2008. It's not like they've dragged him from jobbing on Superstars and thrust him into main events. Or like they've taken Killer Kahn, had him go over Outback Jack once on Wrestling Challenge and then headline against Hulk Hogan in MSG. He was in the perfect position for something like this to put him over the top as far as I'm concerned. It just looks like he hasn't got it. He should worry about it, or cry, or retire, or hang himself, because a lot of people haven't. Or does WWE keep on throwing someone who's not a bonafide main eventer in main events until they become one? Or alternatively do you fuck him off, let him go to his natural position in the upper mid-card and put your resources behind someone who has a better chance at being a breakout main event star like a Sheamus.

 

How long did it take Triple H to go from being that guy who stuck out in main events when they starting forcing him down everyone's throats, to the point where he was a genuine full-time top star? A year or more? The first Heel to retain at Wrestlemania and retiring the legendary Mick Foley? And all that was after he turned at the height of his popularity as DX leader. It still didn't make him an instant top-star, never mind a money-draw. I'm quite glad they persevered with that bloke.

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