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IANdrewDiceClay

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The CM Punk summer push was probably the most Internet-centric thing WWE have ever done. There's been stuff like Matt Hardy and Edge before, but that wasn't built around the title. Punk was the top man, and the stuff he was saying might as well have been read out from printouts of forums. I think that's why it seemed so massive to people on forums and meant fuck all to anyone else. Even the "mainstream" writers who covered it were probably just wrestling fans, and I expect any non-fan who came across the story just shrugged because why would they give a fuck about a wrestling storyline. Austin was always getting sacked, having rows with Vince and fighting for the belt years ago. "It's a shoot" doesn't interest anyone who isn't already interested in the work anyway. And it was always a bit of a stupid idea pandering to people who are going to watch pirated streams anyway.

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Exactly. What Pitcos said is the key to the reason why they lost interest in Punk. They couldn't have given CM Punk more than what they gave him leading into Money in the Bank.

Which is why nothing will ever catch on, if true. if they genuinely "lost interest" in him because he didn't draw a great number after a few weeks of effort then they'll never do anything with anyone ever again.

 

The push into MITB was good but as already pointed out, a lot of it was old school stuff and some pure insider. So after they created a bit of buzz, the next step should have been to make Punk appeal to the rest of the audience. Much as I've never really been a fan of his, it's pretty obvious that the guy has absolutley everything you need to be a great pro-wrestler. What he needed once he came back was a reason to butt heads with the authority, a reason for the ordinary fans to buy into him and a reason for everyone to get behind him. He didn't need insider based arguments with a babyface COO and a feud with a relic.

 

Imagine if they'd given up so quickly in the past. Nah, this rock and wrestling shit isn't catching on, let's not risk WrestleMania, let's go back to the way it was. Anyone got Backlund's number?

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When Austin passed out to Bret's sharpshooter the fans realised he wasn't a cold blooded, violent yob, like he was before. When he turned babyface, we found out he was a proud man who wouldn't quit no matter how much pain he was in because it was against what he believes he should be. When he won the title in 1998, by then there was so much character development we knew he was a working class beer drinker, who overcome firings from rival promotions and a broken neck in the ring and also we found out that the owner (Vince) hates him, but he still fought all that to get to the WWF belt.

All day. You'd watch him and think "I know people like him. And I like people like him". I see Punk pissing and moaning and whinging and I think "I know people like him. I can't abide those fuckers." I cannot relate to Punk as a babyface on any level.
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Imagine if they'd given up so quickly in the past. Nah, this rock and wrestling shit isn't catching on, let's not risk WrestleMania, let's go back to the way it was. Anyone got Backlund's number?

Ridiculous example, to be fair. Doesn't even make any sense to use that example. If the Rock and Wrestling angle didn't catch on, of course the WWF would have pulled he plug on it. WWF spent so much money and dedicated so much time to it, if it bombed, WWF would probably have either went under or had to start using the likes of Backlund again. Same logic applies here (apart from the going under part). If something bombs royally, you dont continue with it. Especially in these times of the buyrates and ratings being so weak. WWE threw the kitchen sink at the MITB buildup, nobody has had more freedom to say what they want to get themselves over at the expense of established stars and the number came in and it was only 20,000 more than a R-Truth main event with 5% of the build. Insider bullshit never works. They made a mistake of even going down that route. There wasn't anything "old school" about the MITB buildup. It was just an experiment that they tried. If they really thought this was a game changing angle, they wouldn't have used it on a C-level show like Money in the Bank.
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The problem with the CM Punk angle was too much happened too fast without any time for fans to truly digest it. The start to me was great, Punk had victories over Cena from months back and his tirade made sense. Vince's involvement trying to silence Punk was fantastic too and Cena played his part as the stand up guy who didn't want to take the easy way out. MITB was great and the revelation that Vince had been relieved of duties was wonderfully played. Even that Comic con video was great, but then as most people said, Punk returned to Raw the next week. It wasn't just that, that episode of Raw Rey Mysterio became the 'faux' champion and then was ordered to face Cena who soundly beat him. The truth is Cena and Mysterio could've been saved for Summerslam. Next was a blur between Punk and Cena and HHH with the Rock randomly thrown in for good measure. Then Summerslam came around and the match was good with HHH there, suddenly now Kevin Nash is back and Alberto Del Rio who was last seen being beaten by a single kick is champion. Since then it splintered off into Cena vs. Del Rio and Punk vs. Nash, except that turned into Punk vs. Nash vs. HHH and Punk admits that the title he wanted to take away as a symbollic blow against the machine, means little to nothing for him as he's more interested in slagging off Stephanie and Nash. Then Nash's part is pretty much removed for HHH and Punk with the two simply repeating things already said. Then at NOC Cena won the title again, which I believe was pointless as Del Rio could get more out of keeping the title than losing it, and Nash, HHH and Punk added Miz and R-Truth to it. Finally with two weeks of build, we had HIAC triple threat tying Punk back to Cena and Del Rio but continuing to add Nash, Miz R-Truth and more so than ever John Laurinatus. Basically right now what started as a killer feud with Cena, Punk and McMahon all working well off each other has degenerated to a massive clusterfuck of all sorts. That's why Randy Orton and Mark Henry feud is, to me, looking better on TV right now. The two play well off each other and it's about two dynamic characters (well, kinda) who hate each other for good reasons.

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The problem with the CM Punk angle was too much happened too fast without any time for fans to truly digest it. The start to me was great

If it was only fucked up after Punk came back, why did Money in the Bank do a shit buyrate?

The truth is Cena and Mysterio could've been saved for Summerslam.

Course it could. But then you have to get fans to forget Punk so Cena vs Mysterio doesn't just seem like a placeholder paper-champion time-filler until the Internet decides enough time has passed for Punk to return. Either Punk's the top story or he's not. If he's the top story, it's stupid to pretend he doesn't exist for SummerSlam. If he's not the top story, then the people who love him are annoyed anyway.
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Ridiculous example, to be fair.

Yeah and I was 100% serious. Glad you pointed it out though.
No, I mean the premise of your sarcasm was ridiculous. It wasn't relevant to the discussion. WWE were 100% justified to lose interest in any angle if it isnt working, including the Rock and Wrestling thing. Especially, Punk as a headliner, because he bombed miserably. And whats lost is, it was his idea and it was sink or swim. And he sank. Royally.
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If it was only fucked up after Punk came back, why did Money in the Bank do a shit buyrate?

It didn't. It was 15% up on last year (number may be invented for the purposes of furthering my argument)Also, it takes more than 3 weeks to turn a floundering heel faction leader into a top babyface. They did a decent job in a short time. Really, it should've led to a good Summerslam buyrate. It didn't because they fucked the angle up by rushing it. Also, noone believes in stips anymore [/alvarez], so it's not a shock noone bought Punk was leaving. And then he didn't.
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If it was only fucked up after Punk came back, why did Money in the Bank do a shit buyrate?

It didn't. It was 15% up on last year (number may be invented for the purposes of furthering my argument)
Considering last year's number, though, a 15% increase isn't great for ZOMG NEXT OVERNIGHT AUSTIN and the worked shoot heard round the world.

Also, it takes more than 3 weeks to turn a floundering heel faction leader into a top babyface. They did a decent job in a short time. Really, it should've led to a good Summerslam buyrate. It didn't because they fucked the angle up by rushing it.

If Punk had stayed away another week or two, I can't see it doing much more for the SummerSlam buyrate. Plus everyone on the Internet would have still moaned that it was rushed.
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WWE were 100% justified to lose interest in any angle if it isnt working

Justified in what way? Numbers for the past 10 years say fuck off to that. They've booked inconsistently for the past 10 years, they've lost interest in angle after angle and wrestler after wrestler because *Holy Shit* they didn't catch fire immediately. It takes work. It's not on the same level but it took work to get Rock and Wrestling where they wanted it. it took work to overhaul WCW. Numbers don't change overnight. They don't even change in a few weeks. It takes months and months of consistent, compelling TV to change people's perception and draw in new viewers. If CM Punk isn't drawing people in, fix the flaws in the act. Change up the bits that don't appeal to everyone. Don't cut his legs off. Don't punish him by making him work with Kevin Nash. That's fucking over your own product. Punk has got everything, it just needs drawing out. Don't waste 6 weeks work, make the next 6 weeks even better.Otherwise, it's exactly what you said. It's throwing shit at a wall to see if it sticks.
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If it was only fucked up after Punk came back, why did Money in the Bank do a shit buyrate?

It didn't. It was 15% up on last year (number may be invented for the purposes of furthering my argument)
Considering last year's number, though, a 15% increase isn't great for ZOMG NEXT OVERNIGHT AUSTIN and the worked shoot heard round the world.
It's not, but I think we can take as read that people on the internet went too mental. They did a good job in the three weeks they had and MITB benefited from it

Also, it takes more than 3 weeks to turn a floundering heel faction leader into a top babyface. They did a decent job in a short time. Really, it should've led to a good Summerslam buyrate. It didn't because they fucked the angle up by rushing it.

If Punk had stayed away another week or two, I can't see it doing much more for the SummerSlam buyrate. Plus everyone on the Internet would have still moaned that it was rushed.
Well this is where it gets tough, and I think I've phrased myself poorly. It should've done good numbers for the rematch, rather than summerslam. It' not just about rushing punk back, but also Vince getting fired, the tournament etc.
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Well this is where it gets tough, and I think I've phrased myself poorly. It should've done good numbers for the rematch, rather than summerslam. It' not just about rushing punk back, but also Vince getting fired, the tournament etc.

Aye, extending it further is the tough bit. If they just went with the tournament leading to Cena vs Mysterio at SummerSlam, they'd have to promote that as a big match, which means ignoring Punk. People who are only interested in Punk might lose interest until he comes back. Considering how big a part of the show Punk was when he "left", every week until his return would almost definitely seem like filler. Cena vs Mysterio should have been a big PPV draw though, and it was a waste to do it on Raw. I just don't know if doing it at SummerSlam with the shadow of Punk hanging over it would've been much better.
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WWE were 100% justified to lose interest in any angle if it isnt working

Justified in what way? Numbers for the past 10 years say fuck off to that. They've booked inconsistently for the past 10 years, they've lost interest in angle after angle and wrestler after wrestler because *Holy Shit* they didn't catch fire immediately. It takes work. It's not on the same level but it took work to get Rock and Wrestling where they wanted it. it took work to overhaul WCW. Numbers don't change overnight. They don't even change in a few weeks. It takes months and months of consistent, compelling TV to change people's perception and draw in new viewers. If CM Punk isn't drawing people in, fix the flaws in the act. Change up the bits that don't appeal to everyone. Don't cut his legs off. Don't punish him by making him work with Kevin Nash. That's fucking over your own product. Punk has got everything, it just needs drawing out. Don't waste 6 weeks work, make the next 6 weeks even better.Otherwise, it's exactly what you said. It's throwing shit at a wall to see if it sticks.
CM Punk isnt some greenhorn from developmental. You can't give him that kind of time to get himself over. He's already been on TV for years. He's been around since 2006. He should already have the trust of the audience (god knows he's been in some good enough storylines to warrant it). He isn't some young fresh face you can give time to. Everyone knows who he is. People say that post MITB he was buried, but he was all over the media! They put him on the Jimmy Kimmel Show, they had him representing WWE at that Baseball game (where the commentators laughed at him) and he was the star of the show at the heavily hyped and promoted Comic Con event. There are plenty of wrestlers wishing they would get buried like that. They didn't give Rob Van Dam kind of push when the internet wanted him as the next Shawn Michaels in 2001. They didn't give Edge this kind of star build in 2005. They didn't just put Punk in a main event slot. They whored him on TV, they sent him out to TV shows and sporting events and they spent a huge amount of money promoting MITB and SummerSlam. And both buyrates died horribly. I understand if they were building a new character and it was all about what was on TV that you judged him by, but WWE rolled out the red carpet. Nobody should have bombed that bad.This is how it worked: Punk said he doesnt want to sign a new deal, WWE says what will it take to keep you, he comes up with some indyrific storyline, Vince (against the judgment of anyone in the promotion who knows its audience) runs with it, then there is a horrid mix between an Indy storyline and WWE pushing this storyline as a massive angle in the media. The audience was there for it to succeed. The players and the angle wasn't right. If he was as good as people say he is, why are the interviews that he has the most amount of input in so off putting to the mass audience?
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I'm a little confused by some of the comments in here. Were people really expecting Punk to become to next Austin? Honestly? That's just unrealistic. Guys like that come along very, very rarely. I would have thought the aim was to make him a legitimate, credible main eventer and elevate his status with the fans. That's what I felt was achieved and in the process made the show much more interesting.

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