Shows with a HOFer in every match

[TheBigBoot]

That WM 12 card may not of had many matches but its loaded with "big names" from the era. When you have Warrior, Jake Roberts, Yoko, Owen, Bulldog, Dustin and Diesel in addition to the Hall of Famers that's a pretty impressive line-up on paper. And that was around the time Scott Hall was suspended or you could have had even more.

 

In that case, Summerslam 2002 comes DAMN close. If Booker T ever went in...

 

Can't see that happening and I like Booker more than most.

 

From that match it would be interesting to see someone make a case for Dustin (don't know if he's ever been on any ballots). Not that I think he should go in but in terms of in-ring work you could quite easily argue he's the best North American worker of the 90s not in there. The only guys clearly better than him already are. Although of course I suppose you could say the same of a lot of the great workers of the 70s, 80s, etc.

 

Canadian Stampede comes close, and the number of HOF'ers could go up over time.

 

1. Mankind (HOF) vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley (HOF)

 

2. The Great Sasuke vs Taka Michinoku

 

3.The Undertaker (HOF) vs Vader (HOF) (with Paul Bearer)

 

4. The Hart Foundation (Bret Hart (HOF), Jim Neidhart, Owen Hart, The British Bulldog, and Brian Pillman) vs Steve Austin (HOF), Ken Shamrock, Goldust, and The Legion of Doom (Hawk and Animal) (HOF)

 

 

 

What chance do Taka and Sasuke have of going in at some point?.

 

Sasuke - I'd say is in with a chance. Actually he's probably a better candidate than a few of those names who are in.

 

Taka - No chance. His strongest attribute was his in-ring work/workrate/etc. and as great as he was early on in his career I think his later work brings him down.

 

Haven't read WON itself for a few years so no clue what the current opinions on those guys are, so all the above might be way out in which case I'll let someone else fill in the blanks if there has been new research/level of support/whatever for Booker, TAKA, etc.

 

Off the top of my head, I think this is one. Dont think I'm missing any matches:

Royal Rumble 98:

Vader vs Goldust

The Rock vs Ken Shamrock

The Legion Of Doom vs. The New Age Outlaws

Royal Rumble (with Austin, Rock, Foley and Funk)

Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker

 

Wikipedia says this is missing:

Max Mini, Mosaic and Nova defeated Battalion, El Torito and Tarantula Tag team match with Sunny as Special Guest Referee

.

 

Was that the one with the hilarious leapfrog by Sunny?

 

Yes! Pretty good match. One of the better minis matches during their WWF run, from what I remember.

[Tommy Atkins]

WM 12 had a dark match: Body Donnas vs Godwinns.

 

It's pretty hard to find one from the PPV era because very few HOFers have been in dark matches, and most PPVs had dark matches.

[Tommy Atkins]

Royal Rumble 98 has 5 out of 6 matches with HOFer, with the exception being a mexican minis match.

[Frankie Crisp]

WM 12 had a dark match: Body Donnas vs Godwinns.

 

It's pretty hard to find one from the PPV era because very few HOFers have been in dark matches, and most PPVs had dark matches.

I took the thread as meaning all matches in the televised PPV rather than the pre-show. You're right about finding one from the PPV era, especially when you take in to account most shows had a women's match which cocks everything up. Also, a hell of a lot of PPVs from 1999-2001/2 featured at least one of Edge, Christian, the Dudleys or the Hardys which reduces the odds given that they faced each other a fair few times. The Hardcore title/division doesn't help, either.

[Vamp]

I question how much more legitimate a Hall of Fame is when it incluces Chris Jericho. The only justification for being in I can find is the Undisputed Championship win, which was a completely shit title reign (although, yes, most of the blame rests on the writing team). Are there any other reasons he went in? I know he's wrestled in a lot of places for a very long times, has had a few pretty good matches (mostly against great workers) and has proven himself to be mostly a decent worker but he's not a name I would put in if I was really trying to make a true and valid Hall of Fame.

[Chris B]

I think most of the voters for the HOF agreed with you until his return a few years ago - his improvement in-ring and promo-wise took him from being a 'probably not' to being in.

 

I think with Jericho, it's a mixture of consistency, name recognition and being one of the last to truly go around the world.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

I cant see how Jericho gets anywhere near it personally. He's very good at times, but thats about it. Wasnt world class like a Benoit and wasnt a massive draw like the Rock. Wasnt even a Kurt Angle type draw either. Jericho was usually the bloke they had to desperately get the belt off. And consistant isnt a word I'd use to describe him. Sting isnt on there, when he should be. He was a massive draw in the mid-90s, on of the most popular wrestlers of his era and a decent main level wrestler. Sting should be miles ahead of Jericho. Also, there's no Bischoff, yet Heymans in there. I dont get that at all. If the criteria they are using for Heyman is what I imagine it to be, then surely Bischoff's a dead cert as well.

 

Very much like the Hall of Fame though, the people voting on these things have their agenda, so you cant take it to seriously. There could never be a real wrestling Hall of Fame. Its all subjective given the nature of the business.

[TheBigBoot]

Also, a hell of a lot of PPVs from 1999-2001/2 featured at least one of Edge, Christian, the Dudleys or the Hardys which reduces the odds given that they faced each other a fair few times. The Hardcore title/division doesn't help, either.

 

Other than Christian, I could see someone making a case for all of those as the years go on. Not saying I agree (I don't!) or that I'd vote for them (I don't have one) but Edge and Jeff Hardy as singles guys and in fifteen to twenty years I could see the Hardyz and Dudleys might be looked back on as the last proper tag teams.

 

I question how much more legitimate a Hall of Fame is when it incluces Chris Jericho. The only justification for being in I can find is the Undisputed Championship win, which was a completely shit title reign (although, yes, most of the blame rests on the writing team). Are there any other reasons he went in? I know he's wrestled in a lot of places for a very long times, has had a few pretty good matches (mostly against great workers) and has proven himself to be mostly a decent worker but he's not a name I would put in if I was really trying to make a true and valid Hall of Fame.

 

I believe Jericho is in there for mostly for his work on the mike and in the ring over a decent length of time plus being around as a decent-level 'name' during the boom period, rather than drawing power. Plus the fact he was one of the last guys to do it on that Mexico-Japan-ECW-WCW-WWF/E scale along with guys like Benoit, Guerrero and Mysterio. Looking at him that way I agree he's an odd one because he's always had his critics - particularly during his first run in WWF/E and during his layoff - amongst the hardcore fans (see any Jericho thread ever on here) and as you say a lot of his best stuff was against guys who are universally* pimped as great workers (Benoit who went in entirely for that reason, Mysterio, etc.).

 

* Or as close to it as you can get with something as subjective as pro wrestling.

 

 

Edit: Just seen Chris B's post - yeah, to all of that as well. Still don't think I'd have voted for him but I can see how WWE run #2 boosted his reputation.

[Vamp]

It does seem that Jericho's mainly in there becuase he was a part of 'that' group, with Benoit, Eddie, Mysterio etc. But then the others have other valid reasons. Benoit for being a consistent worker for so long, Mysterio for overcoming his height and arguably really bringing his particular style of working to a world wide audience, and I'd argue Eddie deserves to be there for his ring and promo work. To me Eddie was better than Jericho, but that might be subjective. I don't thik a worker should be in the Hall of Fame for being well travelled. The fact that Jericho's in there over Sting, which I didn't realise until now, ruins the Hall's creditibility to me anyway.

 

Then again I'm kind of leaning towards agreeing with the general sentiment which is beign expressed on the cubsfan over the lucha section in that active workers probably shouldn't go in. I know retirements arn't as final in pro wrestling but I'm not keen on putting a guy in who's working a full schedule. At least with the WWE one, which I'm not saying is any better, they're mostly retired workers. And even then I'm not keen when a worker retires and goes in the next year, or the day before (in Ric's case). It kind of feels like there has to be at least a five year gap between their retirement/death and their nomination for it to feel like it really means something.

 

Sorry, I'm taking this way off topic.

[AshC]

How on earth can Sting not be in the Observer HOF? I'm thinking this must be down to a criteria loophole, as his longevity, kayfabe success, creative development and body of in-ring work is obviously outstanding.

[Chris B]

I think everyone is of the opinion that he'll be in there sooner rather than later. He's certainly not going off the ballot any time soon.

 

Because of their balloting system, it can sometimes seem a little random as to who gets in and who doesn't at times.

[Kenny McBride]

Had Sting stayed retired after WCW, he'd probably be in by now. Working with TNA tarnishes EVERYONE's legacy. Now, more and more of the newer voters are going to be of an era where historical perspective is significantly skewed by not having lived through WCW to the same degree and by having grown up with WWE propaganda telling them that WCW was never worth a damn.

 

For what it's worth, Sting had a couple of decent buyrates (although even Starrcade '97 didn't do anything spectacular compared to the heights of the WWF) but never drew any really huge houses. WCW's hottest period was arguably when he wasn't actually wrestling at all. His work was solid but never really outstanding. He certainly feels like he should be in, but it's not as clear cut as you might imagine. The HOF voters seem to take into account who was on the ship when it sank as much as who sailed it into uncharted seas.

[cobra_gordo]

Wrestlemania 12 has one in every match:

 

Vader,

[JNLister]

Aside from a few C shows in the mid 80s, a couple of months run with Savage, and one PPV against Sting, Jake never main evented shows, not even B shows. It's very hard for somebody in that position, no matter how well-known, to get in.

[IANdrewDiceClay]

Had Sting stayed retired after WCW, he'd probably be in by now. Working with TNA tarnishes EVERYONE's legacy. Now, more and more of the newer voters are going to be of an era where historical perspective is significantly skewed by not having lived through WCW to the same degree and by having grown up with WWE propaganda telling them that WCW was never worth a damn.

 

For what it's worth, Sting had a couple of decent buyrates (although even Starrcade '97 didn't do anything spectacular compared to the heights of the WWF) but never drew any really huge houses. WCW's hottest period was arguably when he wasn't actually wrestling at all. His work was solid but never really outstanding. He certainly feels like he should be in, but it's not as clear cut as you might imagine. The HOF voters seem to take into account who was on the ship when it sank as much as who sailed it into uncharted seas.

You could use that for everyone on the Hall of Fame list. Sting has his faults, but so does everyone else. Everyones legacy can be picked apart. Terry Funk's spent the last 10 years walking around High School gyms and small halls doing nothing but punches. Has that ruined his legacy enough to not class him as not being Hall of Fame worthy anymore? How about Flair? He went down with WCW. He's wrestled for TNA, he wrestled for WCW when it was creatively the pits. Sting was apart of a two year long storyline from 96-98 where he didnt wrestle, but drew massive television ratings and judging by the masks and Sting t-shirts, buildings full of people who came to see him. I'd say whoevers voting on this, are quite mental. The likes of Jericho were never in Stings league. Its ridiculous really.