Joey Joe Joe Jr Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 i'll agree completely with who above me said that since punk came back he has felt like just another superstar in the sense that you "know its wrestling" when he comes on now. shawn said it in his dvd on the subject of when he passed out in the ring and how things in the viewer's mind (or codes in what they consume which they have come to interpret for themselves) tell them its all wrestling and they lose some of that suspension of belief (alex shane said recently something along the lines of wrestling's aim being not about making them think its real but making them forget its fake). now that punk is coming out on cue when trips is in the ring, has new music, a new t-shirt etc., he's become another superstar and in the process has lost some of that true outsider-edge he had when it appeared he had one foot out the door of the wwe universe. prior to MITB, within the context of the story, his, very michael-douglas-in Falling Down, man without a care who was on the way out and had nothing to lose felt very authentic and appealing to a viewer, because in reality he did have nothing to lose (no one knew if he was resigned or simply going out on a high to take a break for a bit like jericho in 05; all of which made it unpredictable tv on several levels). the week he was at home and tweeting and appearing at comicon all helped further this, but since he's come back he's fallen into the mold of just another guy who every now and then refers to stephanie and trips' marriage which has been done so many times, not least by trips himself. sure it gets a good reaction in the moment and punk can turn a phrase but its a steady drop off from what he was saying prior to mitb. when he came back from suspension with the megaphone he had a completely different aura about him. had he stayed away a while longer, it would have solidified him as separate from the company but i understand the argument behind capitlising on him when he's hot, building to summerslam etc.; all of which i enjoyed. but now he's in a traditional storyline fued (authority vs rebel) albeit one with twists and turns, he's become what he has said he has resented: a superstar, complete with t-shirt, tron, music etc. it doesnt help that from city to city, its difficult to gauge a consistent reaction from the crowd where they perceive him as their voice of the voiceless. its even harder when trips is the one whose wife has been insulted, and has done all he can to accommodate punk, as he pointed out on super sd.
Paid Members IANdrewDiceClay Posted September 4, 2011 Paid Members Posted September 4, 2011 Les Thatcher made a great point the other day about Punk's jokey bullshit act. Old Les said if he was in the ring with a 7 footer and a muscle freak who both hate him, he wouldnt lay infront of their feet on his back pretending to be sick. Who would get on their back infront of their enemy opening themselves up for a good kicking? Isnt that what Cena gets ripped the piss out of for? I enjoy him less now than I've ever done. Somethings went horribly wrong with this guy. Whether its the bookers or Punk himself, he's went from someone who was in the midcard who was enjoyable to someone who was very compelling to someone who's in the main event and cringeworthy as hell. I've never seen such a 180 in such a short space of time. Something about his delivery and pace is all to cock. Putting him with Triple H was a terrible idea to be fair. The likes of us and the rest of the internet fans may not see it, but they are words apart as far as perception. You'll never hear a baseball commentator take the piss out of Triple H, like they did with Punk a few weeks back. Triple H looks scientifically built to be a topline performer. Triple H bursts through the camera. He's a real life Conan. He's got the long hair, the beard, the Arnie type body, he's cool as fuck, can be funny, threatening, a calming influence, violent and you know him well enough after years of watching him who his wife is and who his best friend is and how emotional a situation this is for him. What do we know about CM Punk? He doesnt drink or do drugs (what wrestlers do though *wink, wink*), he's a complete cock to someone we respect, he thinks the thing we enjoy watching is shite and needs changing, he only knows how to be a smart arse or angry (or both at the same time which is even more confusing) and thats about it. And we dont see Triple H wrestle much these days, so dangling the carrot that would be Triple H stepping back in the ring and destroying Punk is only going to make the fans more happy HHH is around. Â So who's the babyface in this angle?
Dr.PeterVenkman Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Les Thatcher made a great point the other day about Punk's jokey bullshit act. Old Les said if he was in the ring with a 7 footer and a muscle freak who both hate him, he wouldnt lay infront of their feet on his back pretending to be sick. Who would get on their back infront of their enemy opening themselves up for a good kicking? Isnt that what Cena gets ripped the piss out of for? I enjoy him less now than I've ever done. Somethings went horribly wrong with this guy. Whether its the bookers or Punk himself, he's went from someone who was in the midcard who was enjoyable to someone who was very compelling to someone who's in the main event and cringeworthy as hell. I've never seen such a 180 in such a short space of time. Something about his delivery and pace is all to cock. Putting him with Triple H was a terrible idea to be fair. The likes of us and the rest of the internet fans may not see it, but they are words apart as far as perception. Triple H bursts through the camera. He's a real life Conan. He's got the long hair, the beard, the Arnie type body, he's cool as fuck, can be funny, threatening, a calming influence, violent and you know him well enough after years of watching him who his wife is and who his best friend is and how emotional a situation this is for him. What do we know about CM Punk? He doesnt drink or do drugs (what wrestlers do though *wink, wink*), he's a complete cock to someone we respect, he thinks the thing we enjoy watching is shite and needs changing, he only knows how to be a smart arse or angry (or both at the same time which is even more confusing) and thats about it. And we dont see Triple H wrestle much these days, so dangling the carrot that would be Triple H stepping back in the ring and destroying Punk is only going to make the fans more happy HHH is around. So who's the babyface in this angle?  It's a great point, every precedent in any wrestling storyline ever says that Triple H is the face standing up for his wife and trying to run the company right while Punk slags his wife off (who isn't even involved in storylines and hasn't been for years) and acts like a wanker  I honestly think due to how inconsistent/bizzare they are booking Punk at the moment means it will be part of some massive swerve to do with someone (Vince?) taking over the company again with help from Punk and maybe Nash (which would make no sense but nothing else is at the moment either)
Mr.Showtime Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 The angle is suffering the way every single other one has suffered over the last few years - the shows are being written a day in advance, maybe a few days if you're lucky. Match outcomes are often being decided on the day. When WCW started changing scripts as the show was actually happening it could only lead to inconsistent bollocks that us storyline-lovers could see through. Â Construct a story, decide the outcome, plan it out months in advance, and give us decent and entertaining matches/segments each week to carry the story on. Is that more difficult than the crazy and stressful writing procedure they do now? I don't know.
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted September 4, 2011 Paid Members Posted September 4, 2011 One thing's for sure, they need to pull something big out of the bag on Raw tomorrow night to rescue this angle. They are in a position now where it can still go two ways, it is salvageable, but is in severe danger of going to shit. Â I think that after the events of this past week's Raw and SmackDown, Nash has to be the key to turning it around. The match is signed for Night of Champions now, so Punk vs. HHH it is, but they absolutely have to address the reason for the 'Board of Directors' instructing HHH to replace Nash in the match. I don't know how they are going to do this, but it better be a logical excuse. Â I'm really hoping that they do pull it around, because I don't want to see it fail, but right now I'm not optimistic.
Joey Joe Joe Jr Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 The angle is suffering the way every single other one has suffered over the last few years - the shows are being written a day in advance, maybe a few days if you're lucky. Match outcomes are often being decided on the day. When WCW started changing scripts as the show was actually happening it could only lead to inconsistent bollocks that us storyline-lovers could see through. Construct a story, decide the outcome, plan it out months in advance, and give us decent and entertaining matches/segments each week to carry the story on. Is that more difficult than the crazy and stressful writing procedure they do now? I don't know.   take it for what you will but, but lagana constantly reiterates in his podcasts that vince will constantly change his mind about direction of characters and angles, so it must be incredibly frustrating, from a writer's perspective, trying to construct a coherent story.  the one positive about all the punk stuff is that the go-home show for a ppv has had a great segment, so while tomorrow i hope they address the switch, the following week will be pretty important too.
Paid Members tom Posted September 4, 2011 Paid Members Posted September 4, 2011 One thing's for sure, they need to pull something big out of the bag on Raw tomorrow night to rescue this angle. They are in a position now where it can still go two ways, it is salvageable, but is in severe danger of going to shit. I think that after the events of this past week's Raw and SmackDown, Nash has to be the key to turning it around. The match is signed for Night of Champions now, so Punk vs. HHH it is, but they absolutely have to address the reason for the 'Board of Directors' instructing HHH to replace Nash in the match. I don't know how they are going to do this, but it better be a logical excuse.  I'm really hoping that they do pull it around, because I don't want to see it fail, but right now I'm not optimistic. Perhaps it's going to become a 3-way with Nash chucked in, with the end result being a match that can mostly be structured around the tension between Nash and Trips. Maybe something like Nash starts like a house on fire, chucking Trips out of the ring to focus on Punk, and then obviously when he gets back into the match Trips wants a go at Punk but Nash won't let him, resulting in an instant conflict. I would try to focus the match around Nash with the minimum amount of physicality between HHH and Punk. And then in terms of how the match ends, there's two directions they can go in, and it depends on if they want a swerve or not.  The swerve ending, which mostly accounts for keeping H's and Punk apart as much as possible, is basically HHH turning on Nash to give Punk the win and it was a set-up all along; HHH knew Cena's foot was on the rope but counted anyway and he honestly knew nothing of Nash's intentions, which would explain his insistence on trying to get Nash away from Punk initially, but after Laurinateus (sp?) hired Nash then the plans needed to change. The changed plans would of course be that Punk and HHH needed to pretend to be at one another's throats knowing Nash would be pissed at having his shot at Punk taken away and would force his way into the match, giving them the perfect chance to screw him over. It would also go part way to explaining the nature of Punk and HHH's in-ring spats as simply being put on, and thus the emphasis on the wife references which HHH himself previously said don't do much to him, and part of the smoke-screen  There is also the non-swerve way which sees Nash fuck up and allow Punk to get the victory over him, which of course pisses H's off, furthers the tension between him and Nash, and also keeps the feud with Punk open to be furthered and advanced into Survivor Series and HHH's return to one-on-one action  None of it is perfect but it would be a decent way out of the hole they've booked themselves into, especially a partnership with H's playing his bad-ass role within the context of his position of power allowing Punk to get that bit of fire within him again
Paid Members Arch Stanton Posted September 4, 2011 Paid Members Posted September 4, 2011 I've actually just rewatched the SD segment and they seemed to imply that HHH put himself in the match because he'd grown sick of Punk pushing his buttons. Didn't quite pick up on that when I watched it live. If that's the reason given, then fair enough, but Nash needs to make some more noise about it tomorrow night. It would seem to be the case that HHH doesn't have enough faith in Kev to get the job done and give Punk the kicking he deserves. Nash needs to call him out on that point. Â All that would appear to be building a HHH vs Nash angle though, with Punk reduced to a supporting role. That's not good news.
Paid Members tom Posted September 4, 2011 Paid Members Posted September 4, 2011 All that would appear to be building a HHH vs Nash angle though, with Punk reduced to a supporting role. That's not good news. The best that we can hope for Punk is that he is positioned at the forefront of a HHH-Nash power struggle storyline, allowing him to be the top guy for one of the two and fighting against the others top guy. That of course, would need some sort of swerve to move them away from both Nash and Trips wanting to murder him.
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